Loxone smart homes.............

[J.C.E]

any trained or know/ installed their gear?

I want to jump into the smart home market- doing a bit of research for what course to go on- looking like it might be a Loxone one...

 

[SparkyChick]

I was considering this too, until I read some of the comments on other threads on the subject. Search the forums and see what others have said.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

From all i have heard so far the Loxone training is very technical and at the higher end of the smart home market, I have to admit i havent done it myself but am not sure what you really learn in a half day course you couldnt get from elsewhere. Likewise the 2nd module is around £450. so a bit of an outlay. But if you think you will get hte work to justify the training then go for it.

 

[Octopus]

I suspect that the market for these products is quite small at the moment, so look before you leep is my view!

 

[Leesparkykent]

I've been fitting lots of RAKO lately which I think is good kit. Not as Versatile as loxone with the options though. I looked at going on the loxone training but thought they were taking the pee at around £650.

 

[AJshep]

First off I appologize in advance I'm dyslexic so spelling mistakes and poor grammer will follow.

I've Installed 4 Loxone Systems, I've never completed any training, the chap I subcontract for did a weeks Expert training course in 2013 and to be quite honest he said it was quite rushed and didn't really take much from it.

We are going back a bit but from what I gather from looking at the course notes they group you into teams and give you team challenges, i think, like all these trainning methods if you have someone on your team who is used to the system the other trainnees tend to follow that person.
At the end of the course you get "Silver Partner" status, put on their website and a discount from the web shop, this lasts one year, if you don't spend the money (not sure the figure but think its 8,000) your loose the status !!

So in a nutshell Loxone is a PLC based system, you wire each circuit you want to be controlled back to a central location and it basically connects into an relay output in the miniserver or an appropriate extension, each extension is connected to the miniserver and together by way of a bus system (2wires) so you can have multiple panels if you choose, but planning is important.

They have a wide range of extensions and devices, and have thought about every situation but obviously each device costs money, which obviously drives the price up !!

Music systems and Intercoms connect via the network so it really comes in handy to be able to install your own comms cabinet and maybe wireless access points in large houses too.
If your thinking about using the motion sensors as an alarm system too (as they advertise), then your probably want to consider installing a UPS system to keep the network going as well as the power supply to your system, your also need a PSU with battery for your external siren.

There can be quite alot to think about when installing a system like this, I'm not sure if it's all discussed on the trainning course and if the customers are just adding bits here and there, which happened to me it can be a bit of a headache.

The programming isn't to hard, your need some understanding on how to forward ports so you can access the system remotely again I'm not sure this is taught in depth !

It seems alot of IT chaps do the training then get sparks to wire it, I think you can make good money on it providing your clear with pricing and level of programming, I'll be doing the course at some stage anyway, I'd definitely be careful who I sold it too. It's no good installing it for someone who can't upgrade their Iphone, your give yourself a headache.
I was thrown in at the deep end, luckily it worked out, but I'm not going to lie, I got a bit stressed and was checking the website every 5 minutes making sure I'd run the right cables for each device !! ideally you want a nice small job first that is planned out properly.

 

[J.C.E]

First off I appologize in advance I'm dyslexic so spelling mistakes and poor grammer will follow.

I've Installed 4 Loxone Systems, I've never completed any training, the chap I subcontract for did a weeks Expert training course in 2013 and to be quite honest he said it was quite rushed and didn't really take much from it.

We are going back a bit but from what I gather from looking at the course notes they group you into teams and give you team challenges, i think, like all these trainning methods if you have someone on your team who is used to the system the other trainnees tend to follow that person.
At the end of the course you get "Silver Partner" status, put on their website and a discount from the web shop, this lasts one year, if you don't spend the money (not sure the figure but think its 8,000) your loose the status !!

So in a nutshell Loxone is a PLC based system, you wire each circuit you want to be controlled back to a central location and it basically connects into an relay output in the miniserver or an appropriate extension, each extension is connected to the miniserver and together by way of a bus system (2wires) so you can have multiple panels if you choose, but planning is important.

They have a wide range of extensions and devices, and have thought about every situation but obviously each device costs money, which obviously drives the price up !!

Music systems and Intercoms connect via the network so it really comes in handy to be able to install your own comms cabinet and maybe wireless access points in large houses too.
If your thinking about using the motion sensors as an alarm system too (as they advertise), then your probably want to consider installing a UPS system to keep the network going as well as the power supply to your system, your also need a PSU with battery for your external siren.

There can be quite alot to think about when installing a system like this, I'm not sure if it's all discussed on the trainning course and if the customers are just adding bits here and there, which happened to me it can be a bit of a headache.

The programming isn't to hard, your need some understanding on how to forward ports so you can access the system remotely again I'm not sure this is taught in depth !

It seems alot of IT chaps do the training then get sparks to wire it, I think you can make good money on it providing your clear with pricing and level of programming, I'll be doing the course at some stage anyway, I'd definitely be careful who I sold it too. It's no good installing it for someone who can't upgrade their Iphone, your give yourself a headache.
I was thrown in at the deep end, luckily it worked out, but I'm not going to lie, I got a bit stressed and was checking the website every 5 minutes making sure I'd run the right cables for each device !! ideally you want a nice small job first that is planned out properly.

Basically- I potentially have a great rewire I am quoting for- and the client is interested in going smart (only lighting rather than blinds/music/door entry etc)

I plan on doing your course in Reading this year and being a partner- but this job will start before I get the chance!

So very rough spec- only to control 230v LED lighting (not Loxone own lights but probably 230v GU10 Osram 7w LED lamps in down-lights and a few LED pendant lights)- would have thought majority to be able to dim, then some possibly only on/off rather then dim

SW.FEED in 1.5mm twin+earth cable from each group of lights/room- back to dimming extension in Loxone panel (each dimming extension has max of 4 outputs so say if there is 16 groups of lights- I need 4x dimming extensions)

CAT.7 from tree extension in Loxone main panel- as a tree radial to each Loxone Touch light switch and then the radial stops at the last tree point. (saving on amount of CAT.7 used (max of 50x switches on tree extension)

-I assume you need a Loxone switch/sensor in every room you have lighting that is controlled by the Loxone system (so if I have 16 groups of lights- so I need 16 switches or can 1 switch be essentially 2/3gang? For say in a large kitchen with say 2x zones of down-lights and 3x pendant lights over the island)

LOZONE MATERIALS LIST- based on say 16 groups/rooms:
1x mini server
4x dimming extensions
16x Loxone Touch-Tree
Panel to house it all
CAT.7 Loxone Cable

For now I just wanted to make sure I didn’t under price my quote and I needed more Loxone gear then I thought!

And also to see if I had the basics of the wiring correct above for being able to 1st fix correctly?

 

[polo1]

First off I appologize in advance I'm dyslexic so spelling mistakes and poor grammer will follow.

AJ, don’t apologise mate; your post is better written and explained than many who post on this site!

 

[AJshep]

Basically- I potentially have a great rewire I am quoting for- and the client is interested in going smart (only lighting rather than blinds/music/door entry etc)

I plan on doing your course in Reading this year and being a partner- but this job will start before I get the chance!

So very rough spec- only to control 230v LED lighting (not Loxone own lights but probably 230v GU10 Osram 7w LED lamps in down-lights and a few LED pendant lights)- would have thought majority to be able to dim, then some possibly only on/off rather then dim

SW.FEED in 1.5mm twin+earth cable from each group of lights/room- back to dimming extension in Loxone panel (each dimming extension has max of 4 outputs so say if there is 16 groups of lights- I need 4x dimming extensions)

Yes this sounds about right but take note that only the first output on the dimmer module is rated at 400w the other 3 are rated at 200w

CAT.7 from tree extension in Loxone main panel- as a tree radial to each Loxone Touch light switch and then the radial stops at the last tree point. (saving on amount of CAT.7 used (max of 50x switches on tree extension)

again this is correct although the tree wasn't around when I did my first install I would still recommend (and I also think Loxone do) installing a separate Cat cable to each room, you can use any topology with the tree system but it gives you options if a cable gets hit.
so yeah I'd probably recommend a tree radial for every room.

-I assume you need a Loxone switch/sensor in every room you have lighting that is controlled by the Loxone system (so if I have 16 groups of lights- so I need 16 switches or can 1 switch be essentially 2/3gang? For say in a large kitchen with say 2x zones of down-lights and 3x pendant lights over the island)

Not necessarily, Loxone work on the theroy that people do the same stuff nearly every day so their system operates on a scene method, although it's any easy concept it's probably the hardest to explain to the customer.
When programming you can bring/drag 12 lighting circuits onto a lighting controller. So for example, the preferred way to control a large open plan kitchen dinner with...

LED strip under worktop
COLOUR LED above units
Dinning spots
Kitchen spots
5amps in Dinning

Would be to have a one single switch.
Press 1 = General scene cooking = Kitchen spots /worktop LED
Press 2 = relaxing = colour LED strip on blue, dinning 5amp dimmed to 30%
And so on.. you can have up to 12 presses.
A double click at anytime turns lights off.
You can also have long presses triple clicks to do different things as well.

If you have a motion sensor in the room you would set it to operate your requires scene for the time of day.
The customer can change/add scenes from the app once you have set up, you dont want to be changing stuff for them every eek
So be careful how you price..

LOZONE MATERIALS LIST- based on say 16 groups/rooms:
1x mini server
4x dimming extensions
16x Loxone Touch-Tree
Panel to house it all
CAT.7 Loxone Cable

For now I just wanted to make sure I didn’t under price my quote and I needed more Loxone gear then I thought!

And also to see if I had the basics of the wiring correct above for being able to 1st fix correctly?

Allow a little extra on the materials, it's pretty hard to work out what you need, they do have a app on Apple store that helps with this, they also have a spreadsheet which is free to download on their website. I always add a Loxone Air module it'
Useful if you forget to wire or the customer wants to add a switch later

Although Loxone recommend using CAT 7 I wouldn't, it' to big to work with when you have multiple cables to terminate, I use CAT6e but CAT5e is also fine.

Make sure you have plenty of room for your cabinet as these are pretty big.
on my installs I get the wall battened off and plyed I then bring my cables in the back of the board, the first job I had a 600 wide wardrobe..

It takes a couple of days to actually build your cabinet, prior to second fixing so allow for this and some tri rated singles too.
You can source your own but its probably just as easy to use loxones own cabinets. As they have finger trunking pre installed (i think)
I pre wire my panels and connect tge outgoing cables to numbered wagos but these aren't particularly cheap either.
If your installing mutiple LED strips then dobg forget your need multiple power supplys, (lots of LEDs) also remember to common the grounds up to avoid interference so if you have 2 panel positions it's a good idea to make sure you run a few spare cores to be able to do this.

Like I said though I havnt actually done the course, theirs alot I don't know, but I hope it helps a bit. The Loxone team in reading are very good though, the chap I deal with "James" is pretty helpful and will talk you through whatever questions you have. They will also probably invite you snd your customer to their showroom too, Obviously your acting as a salesman for them so it's within their interest to keep you sweet .

One last thing I always like to do is take a cat cable from my panel to the doorbell press. Even if you havnt got a music server you can set a notification when programming so it can let the customer know someone rung the doorbell when their not in.

# sorry guys and girls i hope this reads alright, I'm on my mobile just trying to highlight the problems I came across.

 

[telectrix]

might be good for lazy southerners but i don't think it will catch on up north. up here 'er indoors can dim the lights on her way to fetching in a beer.

 

[Leesparkykent]

might be good for lazy southerners but i don't think it will catch on up north. up here 'er indoors can dim the lights on her way to fetching in a beer.

Probably couldn't afford it up north anyway

 

[Lagentium]

Have you had a look at the list of partners on their website? I'd picks someone at the other end of the country and explain the situation to them!! You will be far away to not compete for business with them so they may help you out.