Maintaining top entry fire rating/IP rating

[MickSmith5824]

Evening all

Had a job yesterday, which I'm back at next week. Job was to install new dual tarriff CU. As can see from photo earthing was supplied off a clamp from incoming metallic pipe which contained the supply cables. As this old CU is double packed out with a frame it had ample space to house this pipe. Problem being when fitting new CU this isn't case. So after chat with mr NIC man I opted to drop board by 100mm jigsaw out top entry and use 100mm plastic trunking across top to house these cables and pipe. He seemed bit unsure at first as much as me but checked it out and said that as we have maintained IP4x at top all is fine. I questioned about the fire rating and he said that this is fine to. What are people's thoughts? I'm back there next week so maybe can improve but thoughts are even if use loads of glands on top and trunking on top surely these are only so resistant to spread of fire.
Cheers

 

[Dave OCD]

What you're describing as a 'metallic pipe' looks very much like a two core 10mm or 16mm MICC or 'Pyro' supply cable. So using a pipe earth strap is a right bodge. Ideally this needs a proper gland and to achieve this it would need the existing pot removing to fit the correct gland, along with specialist tools.
Is the CU a long way from the meter ?

 

[MickSmith5824]

What you're describing as a 'metallic pipe' looks very much like a two core 10mm or 16mm MICC or 'Pyro' supply cable. So using a pipe earth strap is a right bodge. Ideally this needs a proper gland and to achieve this it would need the existing pot removing to fit the correct gland, along with specialist tools.
Is the CU a long way from the meter ?

The whole complex is done like this Dave there's about 200 properties. I'm not entirely sure what the proper name for it is but if you look at the photo the pipe comes in and has some sort of orange outer sheath then what looks like copper pipe is exposed and earth clamp is clamped to this. The pipe itself has 4 cores in it all black. 2 for neutral 2 for live with a wax substance around them. Yes the meters are located all the way down on the ground floor

 

[Grant1987]

Evening all

Had a job yesterday, which I'm back at next week. Job was to install new dual tarriff CU. As can see from photo earthing was supplied off a clamp from incoming metallic pipe which contained the supply cables. As this old CU is double packed out with a frame it had ample space to house this pipe. Problem being when fitting new CU this isn't case. So after chat with mr NIC man I opted to drop board by 100mm jigsaw out top entry and use 100mm plastic trunking across top to house these cables and pipe. He seemed bit unsure at first as much as me but checked it out and said that as we have maintained IP4x at top all is fine. I questioned about the fire rating and he said that this is fine to. What are people's thoughts? I'm back there next week so maybe can improve but thoughts are even if use loads of glands on top and trunking on top surely these are only so resistant to spread of fire.
Cheers

The copper pipe you mention is in fact an MICC (pyro) it needs to be glanded properly to your metal consumer unit to achieve a suitable earth. I would imagine that the main service head (cut out) is a fair distance away and not local. Are you working in a block of flats or a big communal building built 40,50 years ago where pyro was used frequently.

 

[Grant1987]

The whole complex is done like this Dave there's about 200 properties. I'm not entirely sure what the proper name for it is but if you look at the photo the pipe comes in and has some sort of orange outer sheath then what looks like copper pipe is exposed and earth clamp is clamped to this. The pipe itself has 4 cores in it all black. 2 for neutral 2 for live with a wax substance around them. Yes the meters are located all the way down on the ground floor

Replied same time as me answered my question ?

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes it's the cable I described Mick 2 cores for the 24 hour supply and the other 2 for off peak presumably. If changing the board I can't see any other correct option other than glanding it properly. If you don't have the experience or tools to do this [and not many have these days to be honest], you might need to ask around and find someone to give you a hand with that part of the job.[Assuming you can still source the right gland] Unless anyone else can suggest another compliant way of connecting the copper sheath to a sizeable earth conductor.

 

[Grant1987]

Yes it's the cable I described Mick 2 cores for the 24 hour supply and the other 2 for off peak presumably. If changing the board I can't see any other correct option other than glanding it properly. If you don't have the experience or tools to do this [and not many have these days to be honest], you might need to ask around and find someone to give you a hand with that part of the job. Unless anyone else can suggest another compliant way of connecting the copper sheath to a sizeable earth conductor.

Is a nightmare these supplies as a way of caution ive run a seperate 16mm earth to each flat on my previous jobs and ensured the pyro cable is glanded correctly to achieve suitable earthing. The responses I got a few years ago made me run seperate earth whilst upgrading kitchens and consumer units

 

[MickSmith5824]

Replied same time as me answered my question ?

Yes it's the cable I described Mick 2 cores for the 24 hour supply and the other 2 for off peak presumably. If changing the board I can't see any other correct option other than glanding it properly. If you don't have the experience or tools to do this [and not many have these days to be honest], you might need to ask around and find someone to give you a hand with that part of the job.[Assuming you can still source the right gland] Unless anyone else can suggest another compliant way of connecting the copper sheath to a sizeable earth conductor.

Thanks chaps. The thing is these apartments were built maybe 80's and all the properties I've worked on in there are done the same way and none are glanded correctly. Don't seem like many sparks nowadays can chuck their hand to this (including me) and don't know what chances are of getting the right glands? Loads of these properties are failing EICR's because no RCD's and not much way getting round this without CU change

 

[MickSmith5824]

Got me thinking how likely it might be that they have also converted the neutral to tncs at supply. There wasn't much sign of this supplies went to a ryfield

 

[freddo]

I'm not entirely sure what the proper name for it is but if you look at the photo the pipe comes in and has some sort of orange outer sheath then what looks like copper pipe is exposed and earth clamp is clamped to this. The pipe itself has 4 cores in it all black. 2 for neutral 2 for live with a wax substance around them.

Even if you don't have the tools or skills, surely you can recognise an MICC cable??!!

 

[MickSmith5824]

Even if you don't have the tools or skills, surely you can recognise an MICC cable??!!

Get a life Freddo

 

[Strima]

There’s no requirement for fire ratings seals on the DB. As this is part of a complex the cable route into the fabric of the building may need fire stopping.

 

[MickSmith5824]

There’s no requirement for fire ratings seals on the DB. As this is part of a complex the cable route into the fabric of the building may need fire stopping.

Thanks Strima good to have it confirmed. Pretty much what NIC said

 

[Dustydazzler]

So long as the correct IP rating for the board is maintained I’m not personally over fuses about trying to fire seal every square millimetre

 

[7029 dave]

Even if you don't have the tools or skills, surely you can recognise an MICC cable??!!

Its a crying shame, because this type of cable is near on extinct certainly on the domestic front.