Most obvious fault here

[littlespark]

First of all, sorry I didn’t take more photos.
Been to a customer to price a job and had a look at his CU. Split RCD half and half.

From this picture, it appears the left hand side rcd is off, although all the circuits are powered.

so. First thought, faulty rcd. Says it’s off but contacts must still be closed.

Further investigation. Turned all breakers off, reset rcd and it held. Tripped on test button.
Reset right hand rcd.... also held.
Turned on circuit 1, which is marked as sockets, (first one off right hand, not in picture) trips LEFT hand rcd.

Without detailing any more, it appears the left hand side bank of breakers are being supplied through the right hand side rcd. Possibly because they’ve mixed up the rfc legs. All the load on the left hand side running through one 2.5mm cable. I think I’ll clamp it out of interest.
Would this happen with just lives mixed, just neutrals, or both?

I’ll update early next week. With more photos

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think one person briefly attempted an explanation about littlesparks post, every other post has been about a sticker!

 

[littlespark]

Turns out there is a connection between the 2 rfc's. One on each RCD.
The left hand side one is a pair... identical end to end readings on L and N
The right hand side however is not an rfc at all. Theres 3 legs here that are not connected to each other.. so not an rfc. One is an outside socket thats been added. Can trace that cable visually.
Another leg has a connection to the rfc on the left hand side. (i need to find this. could behind a socket, or in a jb)
The last leg has no connection to anything else. This could be a single spur, or it could be a radial with several points on it.

I'm going back with a few 16A breakers to try and split it down a little.

 

[Grant1987]

Never knew that "fibreglass" was a brand name - some more new information for today

It does seem pretty unprofessional for a company like Aico to use a brand name in place of the correct term. Maybe they hope to start a trend and this is a subtle way of encouraging electricians to reference "Aicos" in place of "smoke detectors" ?

Aicos are the way forward every year I do an expert installer course with Aico which I’m sure most of you do. This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery. All my Scottish and Irish friends should know this as their laws are more robust compared to us welsh and English although we will soon be following you

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Turns out there is a connection between the 2 rfc's. One on each RCD.
The left hand side one is a pair... identical end to end readings on L and N
The right hand side however is not an rfc at all. Theres 3 legs here that are not connected to each other.. so not an rfc. One is an outside socket thats been added. Can trace that cable visually.
Another leg has a connection to the rfc on the left hand side. (i need to find this. could behind a socket, or in a jb)
The last leg has no connection to anything else. This could be a single spur, or it could be a radial with several points on it.

I'm going back with a few 16A breakers to try and split it down a little.

A 3 legged ring. Apart from the difficulties in testing it, what danger might there be in putting all 3 legs on the same 32A breaker?
[automerge]1595382036[/automerge]

This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery.

Which code do you give for a battery only smoke alarm a) before and b) after you've knocked it off the ceiling with your Coventry screwdriver? And which regulation do you reference to justify said coding and remedial action?

 

[Grant1987]

A 3 legged ring. Apart from the difficulties in testing it, what danger might there be in putting all 3 legs on the same 32A breaker?
[automerge]1595382036[/automerge]

Which code do you give for a battery only smoke alarm a) before and b) after you've knocked it off the ceiling with your Coventry screwdriver? And which regulation do you reference to justify said coding and remedial action?

A 3 legged ring. Apart from the difficulties in testing it, what danger might there be in putting all 3 legs on the same 32A breaker?
[automerge]1595382036[/automerge]

Which code do you give for a battery only smoke alarm a) before and b) after you've knocked it off the ceiling with your Coventry screwdriver? And which regulation do you reference to justify said coding and remedial action?

i don’t give it any code as I said it does not constitute an unsatisfactory or satisfactory report as it’s not deemed relevant in our EICR’s I did just say this. I don’t use a Coventry screwdriver I use a valleys one it’s better. ?
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difficulties

A 3 legged ring. Apart from the difficulties in testing it, what danger might there be in putting all 3 legs on the same 32A breaker?
[automerge]1595382036[/automerge]

Which code do you give for a battery only smoke alarm a) before and b) after you've knocked it off the ceiling with your Coventry screwdriver? And which regulation do you reference to justify said coding and remedial action?

Also with regards to your 3 legged ring it’s clearly not a ring is it with no continuity. You can spur off at consumer unit though if you wish but not if the 32A ring final is not actually a ring main and does not provide continuity. Any break in the ring is a C2 code Fail

 

[Pretty Mouth]

i don’t give it any code as I said it does not constitute an unsatisfactory or satisfactory report as it’s not deemed relevant in our EICR’s I did just say this. I don’t use a Coventry screwdriver I use a valleys one it’s better. ?

You're right, you did say that, but like most englishmen I struggle with the Welsh accent. The valley SD muct be pretty good if better than a Covvie one, you can get in anywhere with those things

 

[Grant1987]

You're right, you did say that, but like most englishmen I struggle with the Welsh accent. The valley SD muct be pretty good if better than a Covvie one, you can get in anywhere with those things

Haha good man agreed ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Also with regards to your 3 legged ring it’s clearly not a ring is it with no continuity. You can spur off at consumer unit though if you wish but not if the 32A ring final is not actually a ring main and does not provide continuity. Any break in the ring is a C2 code Fail

There's no break in it, it just has a 3rd leg going back to the CU, unless I've misunderstood littlespark's post
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Haha good man agreed ?

It's worse when we're confronted with a written Welsh word. We don't get taught at school how to deal with these situations, so we break into a sweat and get anxiety

 

[Grant1987]

There's no break in it, it just has a 3rd leg going back to the CU, unless I've misunderstood littlespark's post

You might be right if that’s the case then that’s fine he has a 3rd leg which is only a spur. Aslong as the load is not overloading the circuit then that’s fine you’re allowed to spur off at consumer. I thought he said he found out they were radials easy to solve though so no dramas on that one
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There's no break in it, it just has a 3rd leg going back to the CU, unless I've misunderstood littlespark's post
[automerge]1595383178[/automerge]

It's worse when we're confronted with a written Welsh word. We don't get taught at school how to deal with these situations, so we break into a sweat and get anxiety

?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Theres 3 legs here that are not connected to each other.. so not an rfc. One is

Wow, did jeg the peg, Ak rollf Harris put it in. Lol.

 

[DPG]

Aicos are the way forward every year I do an expert installer course with Aico which I’m sure most of you do. This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery. All my Scottish and Irish friends should know this as their laws are more robust compared to us welsh and English although we will soon be following you

I take it you supply and fit a replacement for free?

 

[nicebutdim]

Aicos are the way forward every year I do an expert installer course with Aico which I’m sure most of you do. This is another topic which sparkys on here will disagree with me because smoke alarms don’t constitute an unsatisfactory report in an EICR because they are not “relevant” in our reports but I disagree if I see a battery only smoke alarm (fire angel) I get my hammer out and smash it off the ceiling. Every property should have a mains wired optical smoke alarm (hallway, landing) heat alarm kitchen interlinked with 10 year lithium back up battery. All my Scottish and Irish friends should know this as their laws are more robust compared to us welsh and English although we will soon be following you

I'd absolutely agree that every home should have interlinked smoke alarms, but I'm not sure I'd condone smashing battery powered alarms off a ceiling.

What happens in a private residence where the owner either delines this work or wishes to defer it due to cost constraints? While I'd share your enthusiasm for safer homes, breaking an old alarm could leave you in a situation where the property is less safe after your visit than it was before.

I suspect your comment was tongue in cheek and you only smash those old alarms when they're going to be replaced as part of your work...

 

[littlespark]

You remove the old battery smoke alarm from the ceiling by unscrewing it. Then take it, whole, to your nearest recycling centre where it will be disposed of properly.

A hammer smashed alarm will end up in the general rubbish ?♻

 

[Grant1987]

You remove the old battery smoke alarm from the ceiling by unscrewing it. Then take it, whole, to your nearest recycling centre where it will be disposed of properly.

A hammer smashed alarm will end up in the general rubbish ?♻

Of course it was tongue in cheek I don’t really get my hammer out I carry out correct procedure as you’ve stated as they are not meant to be disposed in general waste ?

 

[nicebutdim]

Inspired.

View: https://youtu.be/sv8onWezTW0