Moving to radials in Kitchens

[Bobby34]

I'm going to quote for a kitchen rewire shortly where the client is having a new kitchen fitted and new appliances and am contemplating doing away with the traditional 2.5 ring final on a 32amp mcb and running a 4mm radial instead. Clipped direct is 36amp so could still use a 32amp but with todays energy efficiency could probably even use a 20amp mcb and have the option to move up to 32 if needed.

Just wanted to see what peoples thoughts are whether anyone has done it or if the ring final in the kitchen is here to stay?

 

[mhar]

Personally I use a 25A ocpd on a 4mm radial

 

[Bobby34]

At the risk of sounding completely noob... I didn't even realise they did 25amp hahaha! Even better can't see newer appliances using close to that these days so that will be fine and plenty under the max carrying capacity, thanks mhar

 

[telectrix]

At the risk of sounding completely noob... I didn't even realise they did 25amp hahaha! Even better can't see newer appliances using close to that these days so that will be fine and plenty under the max carrying capacity, thanks mhar

not all manufacturers do 25A MCBs and even those that do, rare to find them in wholesaler's off the shelf.

 

[Pete999]

I'm going to quote for a kitchen rewire shortly where the client is having a new kitchen fitted and new appliances and am contemplating doing away with the traditional 2.5 ring final on a 32amp mcb and running a 4mm radial instead. Clipped direct is 36amp so could still use a 32amp but with todays energy efficiency could probably even use a 20amp mcb and have the option to move up to 32 if needed.

Just wanted to see what peoples thoughts are whether anyone has done it or if the ring final in the kitchen is here to stay?

Just use a standard 32Amp radial wired in 4mm2 as long as the area isn't greater than 75M2 BS 7671 App 15 can't see where the confusion lies.

 

[Bobster]

Just use a standard 32Amp radial wired in 4mm2 as long as the area isn't greater than 75M2 BS 7671 App 15 can't see where the confusion lies.

Doesn't take much of a de rating factor to make 4mm unsuitable for a 32A MCB.

Although the OP will calculate this as part of his design.

 

[andyb]

Why the reluctance to using 2.5mm? Lot easier and cheaper.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Have done a few kitchen refurbs using 4mm radials

Especially when the entire house is on 1 ring main I take the entire kitchen off the ring main and just wire it in 1 or 2 new 4mm radials depending on loads etc

I actually quite like doing it this way

 

[Bobby34]

Thanks guys yea thats the way il do it then just wanted to get a few peoples opinions first and yes oc will check VD etc beforehand, very good forum this cheers guys

 

[The Ghost]

I often use radials domestic and commercial. There is some advantages to this. Testing is straightforward and installation in many ways. I usually do 32a. While I agree that wont work for some situations regarding C factors most of the time it does and more so for commercial. While you can do branching with radial circuits, much like the continental method I think it can become a nightmare later when additions and alterations come in to it. As well it is difficult to put three 4mm² into the terminations on sockets. It is a matter of judgement of course regards use of and future use as to whether a radial will be suitable load wise. Never had any problems so far with overloads.

 

[Dustydazzler]

It would be extremely difficult to over load 4mm cable on a domestic kitchen

 

[GBDamo]

At the risk of sounding completely noob... I didn't even realise they did 25amp hahaha! Even better can't see newer appliances using close to that these days so that will be fine and plenty under the max carrying capacity, thanks mhar

You know I was pondering whether this is a misnomer, most kitchen appliances will be no more efficient that in days of yore.

Anything with a heating element will require pretty much the same input to achieve it's purpose.

There are exceptions, obviously:-

Washing machines = wash colder
Fridges/Freezers = Better insulated.
Condenser Dryers

Things that will draw similar current:-

Oven
Hob (dedicated circuit though)
Kettle
Toaster
Blender/Mixer
Microwave
Extractor Hood
Tumble dryers

Then of course there is the multitude of crap that we never used to have.

Dishwasher
Coffee maker
Juicer
Smoothie maker
TVs
Plate warmer
Steam oven
Plinth heater
second ovens
Instant hot water taps

It would be extremely difficult to over load 4mm cable on a domestic kitchen

You ain't seen my missus attempting a Sunday roast.

 

[Squid]

Dryer and washing machine should be in the utility room, tsk.

Most of the stuff listed above gets used once and then is hidden away and given away to a charity shop 5 years down the line.

 

[Squid]

You ain't seen my missus attempting a Sunday roast.

The instructions on the Iceland packaging confuses her?

;o))))

 

[GBDamo]

The instructions on the Iceland packaging confuses her?

;o))))

She's actually very good, just seemed an appropriate line to come out with...