Multiple tails from cut out ?

[rsmck]

We've recently bought a property which needs rewired - I'm not an electrician by trade but have a good understanding of electrics and am brushing up on the 17th edition - we intend to do much of the work ourselves partially as a cash-saving exercise but also for the experience (i've rewired part of a flat before, never a full house!)

Having not moved in yet I only have one small photo of the existing installation (attached) and i'm a little confused by the 4 tails that appear to come from the cut out where I'd normally only expect two.

It's also very hard to determine the earthing arrangement - TT seems likely but the earth conductor does disappear down the same hole at the supply cable comes from so I can't see where it goes from there (it could be connected to something for equipotential bonding)

Can anyone think of a reason there may be two sets of tails from the cut out ?

The intention is to rewire entirely and fit a 100A isolator after the meter to facilitate easier isolation in the future and a new 17th Edition compliant CU - all existing will be replaced as much of it is rubber rather than PVC and is degraded visibly in various places, especially the attic.

 

[Geordie Spark]

<< When did it stop being accepted to wire adjoining properties in this way ? I presume if it turns out these cables do feed next door then Scottish Power will happily correct this at both properties without cost to the owner, as it's before the customers' equipment.>>

I am currently working on a house in South Tyneside which is supplied (looped) from the house next door.

There are "issues" over the earthing arrangements & I have contacted the DNO who - after much argy-bargy - have agreed to provide a sepearate feed at no charge to my customer.

In conversation with the DNO's representative, he told me that in these cases if the householder who is supplied by the loop requests a seperate feed as I did, then there is no charge for the work.

BUT if the householder who is supplying the looped feed requests it then there is a charge & it is that householder who pays for it.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I would say any property that are joined together that were built before 1970 would have the possibility of a shared supply. Until the 90,s really, loads on houses I would imagine never really altered for 50+ years. The largest draw was always a cooker, and to behohnest very few homes had electric it would be town gas and now natural. and most homes had a single TV. and a few lamps, and that was it really.

When the clean air act came in the 60's quite a few homes reverted from coal fires to electric heaters in rooms and so I suppose this was when the Generating Board started to re-think the use of doubling supplies. Of course now we rely on electrical appliances even more and so I wonder how long it will be before 3 phase supplies are introduced into larger homes to take loads such as showers, induction hobs, boilers etc etc.

 

[rsmck]

Was back in this property again recently - move in next week - going to be fun trying to determine what is what.. found another consumer unit and a wonderful example of earth bonding (the other end of that spindly wire is wrapped around a pipe - well I guess it's the thought that counts)

plan is to completely rewire from scratch but I'd like to get the supply situation sorted first.

 

[Octopus]

Was back in this property again recently - move in next week - going to be fun trying to determine what is what.. found another consumer unit and a wonderful example of earth bonding (the other end of that spindly wire is wrapped around a pipe - well I guess it's the thought that counts)
View attachment 5603
plan is to completely rewire from scratch but I'd like to get the supply situation sorted first.

Did you find another meter?

 

[rsmck]

Did you find another meter?

Nope - three consumer units dotted around - one of which appears entirely disconnected. The other (live) one beside the incoming cut out and one in the basement (with 3 fuses in, not traced where the outputs from those go yet) .. and one in the garage which actually looks reasonably modern by comparison - but only one meter as far as I can see.

There's also a mix of VIR and grey T&E dotted around, so there's definitely been changes made to the electrical installation over the years - i'd hazard a guess from most of it that it's all been DIY - certainly not done to the standard i'd expect of an electrician

 

[BlueToBits]

It would be pretty inconvenient if your neighbor is connected through your supply snd the DNO cut-out was to blow, just and you were going on a 3 week vacation....

 

[rsmck]

It would be pretty inconvenient if your neighbor is connected through your supply snd the DNO cut-out was to blow, just and you were going on a 3 week vacation....

Indeed... wouldn't want to do that to a neighbour though ... I've not read the title deeds in full yet but it may be possible they have a right of access to the property for that reason. Certainly it's not uncommon in old converted flats for you to have a right of access through someone else's property if required to isolate services such as water / gas...

Certainly a point to raise to the DNO in the arguments to get them to change it though - hadn't thought of that one

 

[rsmck]

Just to update this with the 'resolution' by the DNO... for anyone who finds the thread in the future

They've replaced the old VIR cable serving the adjoining property with a split concentric (aluminium) cable (which still runs through our basement!) although there are now two separate 100A supply fuses - one for our property and one for the neighbours.

I'm a lot happier with the new cable (doesn't get warm and will safely supply the neighbours!) but still concerned that the cut out for their property is within ours ... seems like the DNO won't budge on this one though because it involves opening the road.

The meter has also been replaced, and the earth connection to the lead sheath re-terminated and is definitely a TN-S supply (there was an earth rod - which is no longer in use) and has a Ze (now) of 0.22



p.s. the new meter is a Southern Electric addition that SP Energy Networks seemed a bit unsure about when they came out as it has an integrated DP Isolator which they don't really recognise, but after some convincing they left it alone and didn't install insist on installing a new isolator - which is good, because I need the space above for the new CU.

 

[nickblake]

you should have asked them for a new isolator they are alot smaller than that one

 

[rsmck]

you should have asked them for a new isolator they are alot smaller than that one

Smaller than the one integrated into the meter ? : /

Are you mistaking the current fuse box for an isolator ? ; ) ... yes obviously that'll be gone as soon as the new CU gets installed which would leave space for a modern isolator but as it stands the only space they were willing to put it was above the meter, meaning there wouldn't be enough space for the new CU and I wouldn't be able to move the isolator ...

I may take the opportunity to install a seperate 100A DP isolator in the space left by the old fuse box just in case the meter is ever replaced with one without that function.