My boiler wiring has not gone to plan!

[HappyHippyDad]

Evening all..

I've got myself into a bit of a pickle with trying to install a hive thermostat.

The house has a combi boiler.
There are 2 zones.. upstairs and downstairs.

In the wiring centre in the boiler there is one 5 core cable going into it.
L, N, E and the other 2 cores go to the terminal block labelled 'Room stat/timer' (see picture).

In that little 2 way terminal block (Room stat/timer), i assumed one would be a permanant live and one would be the switch live.

I have removed the existing grey and black conductors from this block (leaving the L, N and E in placer) and wired in my new 5 core (going to the hive receiver).

All appeared to work fine.

I switch the hive thermostat on, the boiler fires up.
I switch the thermostat off, the boiler stops firing.

However, the radiators are not getting hot.

Does this seem like I have done something silly to some kind of valve (I'm sure I didn't accidentally switch anything off), or is it more likely something to do with removing the existing grey and black conductors from the Room stat/timer terminal?

edit.. I bet removing the grey or black has stopped power getting to the valves? I just didn't see any valves, or any other cables by the combi though. There is just a FCU !

 

[Rockingit]

Think about it: 1 boiler, 2 zones. How can there not be valves involved??

Also, two zones = two stats. One Hive??

 

[Pretty Mouth]

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Think about it: 1 boiler, 2 zones. How can there not be valves involved??

Also, two zones = two stats. One Hive??

I know, I know.
I thought perhaps as it's my first Hive install and I was a bit nervous, that I could just fit it as per you tube clip and all would be well on the hippy front.
I shall return tomorrow, find the actual wiring centre and fit it properly, so it opens both valves (customer is happy for house to be on one zone).
I'm booked on a heating course soon, pity I didn't wait!

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Looks like the above is your setup.

SL from the stat powers the valve.
Valve opens, then acts as a relay, connecting grey and orange together, which completes the circuit A and B.

Sounds like we're by-passing the valve?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

View attachment 119041

I know, I know.
I've drawn that out so many times from John Wards video.
Again, must have been in some hippy daydream where its all peace and love and who cares if there's 2 zones... it'll just work

 

[Jock from the north]

Evening all..

I've got myself into a bit of a pickle with trying to install a hive thermostat.

The house has a combi boiler.
There are 2 zones.. upstairs and downstairs.

In the wiring centre in the boiler there is one 5 core cable going into it.
L, N, E and the other 2 cores go to the terminal block labelled 'Room stat/timer' (see picture).

In that little 2 way terminal block (Room stat/timer), i assumed one would be a permanant live and one would be the switch live.

I have removed the existing grey and black conductors from this block (leaving the L, N and E in placer) and wired in my new 5 core (going to the hive receiver).

All appeared to work fine.

I switch the hive thermostat on, the boiler fires up.
I switch the thermostat off, the boiler stops firing.

However, the radiators are not getting hot.

Does this seem like I have done something silly to some kind of valve (I'm sure I didn't accidentally switch anything off), or is it more likely something to do with removing the existing grey and black conductors from the Room stat/timer terminal?

edit.. I bet removing the grey or black has stopped power getting to the valves? I just didn't see any valves, or any other cables by the combi though. There is just a FCU !

View attachment 119037

Not sure I had a system boiler last week with 3 zone valves ,1 for hot water 2 for heating up and down.to confuse things the hot water had its own programer wired thru cylinder stat as well as 2 danfoss programers for heating 1 up 1 down .I had to fit a duel hive reciever and a combi reciever which was provided by plumber who says this will work but the customer would have to contact hive directly over phone for remote use via mobile phone etc.it works perfectly on the hard ware side but I don't get involved in software side unless it's a basic hive [duel or combi] .I basicly striped the wiring centre right back .there must have been about 50 or more cores crambed in to it .the original boiler was no volt switching so there was no permanent feed to valves .I was stressed to the max with plumbers asking is it ready to fire yet .but it worked first time ,obviously my main concern was making sure tank stat closed hot water valve when tank got hot [I turned stat right down to save time]
Long story short I just used 1 of the room stat terminals in boiler and I guess I picked the right one ,assuming 1 is 240v out and other is sw live in to fire boiler .it sounds like the zone valves are not opening .if there is 2 zones i would think there must be 2 valves and a wiring centre some where with the hive heating on energising the brown of zone valve and micro switch closing firing boiler.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I know, I know.
I've drawn that out so many times from John Wards video.
Again, must have been in some hippy daydream where its all peace and love and who cares if there's 2 zones... it'll just work

They're almost never wired like that though are they? A load of connector blocks shoved in the back of the fused spur is usually more like it.

Something I found that helps me when struggling to troubleshoot heating systems. Temporarily swapping any electronic programmers, smart thermostats, or any other suspicious gadgetry that may have a mind of its own, with lightswitches. Simple and reliable, you can be confident that they are doing what you tell them to. Once you can make the system work correctly with those you can re-introduce the gadgets one at a time.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I feel silly and I'm going to bed.

 

[Jock from the north]

They're almost never wired like that though are they? A load of connector blocks shoved in the back of the fused spur is usually more like it.

Something I found that helps me when struggling to troubleshoot heating systems. Temporarily swapping any electronic programmers, smart thermostats, or any other suspicious gadgetry that may have a mind of its own, with lightswitches. Simple and reliable, you can be confident that they are doing what you tell them to. Once you can make the system work correctly with those you can re-introduce the gadgets one at a time.

Duel channel reciever 2 gang light switch .had my Oldman heating on that for about a week till I got round to fitting new clock

They're almost never wired like that though are they? A load of connector blocks shoved in the back of the fused spur is usually more like it.

Something I found that helps me when struggling to troubleshoot heating systems. Temporarily swapping any electronic programmers, smart thermostats, or any other suspicious gadgetry that may have a mind of its own, with lightswitches. Simple and reliable, you can be confident that they are doing what you tell them to. Once you can make the system work correctly with those you can re-introduce the gadgets one at a time.

 

[Jock from the north]

Evening all..

I've got myself into a bit of a pickle with trying to install a hive thermostat.

The house has a combi boiler.
There are 2 zones.. upstairs and downstairs.

In the wiring centre in the boiler there is one 5 core cable going into it.
L, N, E and the other 2 cores go to the terminal block labelled 'Room stat/timer' (see picture).

In that little 2 way terminal block (Room stat/timer), i assumed one would be a permanant live and one would be the switch live.

I have removed the existing grey and black conductors from this block (leaving the L, N and E in placer) and wired in my new 5 core (going to the hive receiver).

All appeared to work fine.

I switch the hive thermostat on, the boiler fires up.
I switch the thermostat off, the boiler stops firing.

However, the radiators are not getting hot.

Does this seem like I have done something silly to some kind of valve (I'm sure I didn't accidentally switch anything off), or is it more likely something to do with removing the existing grey and black conductors from the Room stat/timer terminal?

edit.. I bet removing the grey or black has stopped power getting to the valves? I just didn't see any valves, or any other cables by the combi though. There is just a FCU !

View attachment 119037

I

Evening all..

I've got myself into a bit of a pickle with trying to install a hive thermostat.

The house has a combi boiler.
There are 2 zones.. upstairs and downstairs.

In the wiring centre in the boiler there is one 5 core cable going into it.
L, N, E and the other 2 cores go to the terminal block labelled 'Room stat/timer' (see picture).

In that little 2 way terminal block (Room stat/timer), i assumed one would be a permanant live and one would be the switch live.

I have removed the existing grey and black conductors from this block (leaving the L, N and E in placer) and wired in my new 5 core (going to the hive receiver).

All appeared to work fine.

I switch the hive thermostat on, the boiler fires up.
I switch the thermostat off, the boiler stops firing.

However, the radiators are not getting hot.

Does this seem like I have done something silly to some kind of valve (I'm sure I didn't accidentally switch anything off), or is it more likely something to do with removing the existing grey and black conductors from the Room stat/timer terminal?

edit.. I bet removing the grey or black has stopped power getting to the valves? I just didn't see any valves, or any other cables by the combi though. There is just a FCU !

View attachment 119037

I must add my wiring centre and fcu were remote from boiler

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Been back with the plumber today.
Neither zone valve was open, as you would expect seeing as though I had disconnected the power to them.
@LmarshallSparks saved the day.
Cheers Laurie

 

[LmarshallSparks]

Been back with the plumber today.
Neither zone valve was open, as you would expect seeing as though I had disconnected the power to them.
@LmarshallSparks saved the day.
Cheers Laurie

Always a pleasure!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Been back with the plumber today.
Neither zone valve was open, as you would expect seeing as though I had disconnected the power to them.
@LmarshallSparks saved the day.
Cheers Laurie

How did they save the day, can't see a previous post from them?

 

[LmarshallSparks]

How did they save the day, can't see a previous post from them?

I’ve been fortunate enough to have happy hippy dad as my electrical mentor well retraining as an electrician! We are local to each other! On this occasion he was fortunate as I’m an experienced plumbing and heating engineer!

 

[Mike Johnson]

So it was personal contact and not through the thread, but what did you do to save the day? what was wrong? and how was it put right?

 

[westward10]

So it was personal contact and not through the thread, but what did you do to save the day? what was wrong? and how was it put right?

Boiler + happy hippy = boiler not working
Boiler - happy hippy = boiler working

 

[LmarshallSparks]

So it was personal contact and not through the thread, but what did you do to save the day? what was wrong? and how was it put right?

Temporarily bypassed the zone valves so the system can work as a single zone! It’s only a small three bed! Happy Hippy will be returning after Christmas to fit a second Hive to split the property into two zones, I believe!

The programmer was wired directly into the boiler so when it was firing it up, it wouldn’t open the zone valves but instead just run through the auto bypass! Once Happy Hippy returns I imagine he’ll wire both receivers into the control box near the zone valves! A simple mistake which I see probably once a month!

But a long story short, what westward10 said!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Boiler + happy hippy = boiler not working
Boiler - happy hippy = boiler working

Jesus Christ Westward. I am actually crying with laughter.
Although the sad, worrying truth is that it may well be correct
Luckily @LmarshallSparks has convinced me to go on a heating course, specifically for the electrics, so when I return I will have learnt that you can't change a 2 zone system into a 1 zone, purely by willing it to happen.

 

[Bluetit]

Which heating course are you looking at? I could be interested in such a thing myself! A weakness for me most certainly.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Which heating course are you looking at? I could be interested in such a thing myself! A weakness for me most certainly.

Global Teach

Global Teach SUI

worcesterbosch-academy.co.uk

£80 for a 2 day course, with food!

 

[James]

Global Teach

Global Teach SUI

worcesterbosch-academy.co.uk

£80 for a 2 day course, with food!

wow, £80 covers good food for 1 to 2 days, depending on your preferences.

I would check with the provider that it is £80 for food and a free training course.
if not then it might be £74.50 for a training course and £5.50 for some soggy sandwiches.

Best of luck with your course, I am jesting just a little bit about the food but also have been on too many courses to list and know what they are like!

 

[LmarshallSparks]

wow, £80 covers good food for 1 to 2 days, depending on your preferences.

I would check with the provider that it is £80 for food and a free training course.
if not then it might be £74.50 for a training course and £5.50 for some soggy sandwiches.

Best of luck with your course, I am jesting just a little bit about the food but also have been on too many courses to list and know what they are like!

Normally I would agree James! However at the Worcester factory’s the food is top rate! It’s highly recommended! I’ll be having a roast dinner both days!!

 

[littlespark]

Free food?!? Where do I sign up?

Soggy sandwich, transparent coffee and a bag of scampi fries…. Sounds delish…

 

[Jock from the north]

Normally I would agree James! However at the Worcester factory’s the food is top rate! It’s highly recommended! I’ll be having a roast dinner both days!!

Unfortunately the days off food being served at say an initial verification course or health and safety etc are gone from my areas. I can remember doing a course in Inverness and we had a banquit, top notch scran ,spaghetti bolognise, beef stew and dumplings the lot .select seem to be miserable gits

 

[littlespark]

I did an NIC run EV course a couple years ago at a posh(ish) hotel in Edinburgh. They had laid on a sandwich buffet, nice enough spread, and the free coffee from hotel barista….
Most recently did a few green courses and my 18th update at the local college…. Cheap cafeteria, but they did have the full Scottish on a roll option….. square and link sausage!



Ops…. Kinda drew the thread off tangent. ️️

 

[pirate]

Careful @littlespark or we might get further off track re the merits of link vs square sausage, what sauce if any, and the ingredients of a "full Scottish" and whether beans should be included...
again!

 

[James]

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[Jock from the north]

I did an NIC run EV course a couple years ago at a posh(ish) hotel in Edinburgh. They had laid on a sandwich buffet, nice enough spread, and the free coffee from hotel barista….
Most recently did a few green courses and my 18th update at the local college…. Cheap cafeteria, but they did have the full Scottish on a roll option….. square and link sausage!



Ops…. Kinda drew the thread off tangent. ️️

link every time and ketchup on a real glasgow roll .we get so called glasgow rolls up here and there garbage ,it must be a closely guarded secret recipe in the central belt lol

 

[pirate]

McGhee's and Morton's are the go-to breakfast rolls down here in Glasgow, fyi!
Tesco stock McGhee's but I don't know if that's just a local thing.

 

[Jock from the north]

McGhee's and Morton's are the go-to breakfast rolls down here in Glasgow, fyi!
Tesco stock McGhee's but I don't know if that's just a local thing.

Up here they label them as Glasgow rolls but there no different from any other roll.my family's from Stevenston so when down used to take a few dozen back home for everyone

 

[littlespark]

So much for trying to steer this back on track.