Need Advice - New Kitchen Rewire

[SparkyChick]

Intoelectrics... agree, I'm not a sparky, but feel that RCBO's can fit into design alongside RCD protected circuits for discrimination as you stated, especially the kitchen. Also agree with calling in an electrician to assess my install and signing off before energising system. Doing this for the enjoyment and knowledge...but safety is paramount!

As you're in Cardiff, you cannot use the third party certification route. In Wales we are required to follow the 2010 version of Approved Document P which (a) makes the kitchen a special location requiring any work involving changing the fixed wiring a notifiable job and (b) did not contain the provision for Third Party Certification.

This provision was introduced into Approved Document P in 2013 which is after the Welsh Assembly took control of the building regulations (which is why we're still working to the 2010 version).

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Sparkychick all noted, but go to your nearest wholesaler, Screwfix or Toolstation near you, they are filled with experience but unqualified time served sparky's (very good one's) who are first, second and third fixing, just to get their certs at the end of the job from a qualified electrician. This is the reality as you know well, I know at least three great successful contractors who do this. Inspection and testing complete, all passed, cert supplied, money changes hands, this is the way of the world. Work is safe, customer is safe and more people earning a living...what's new!!

 

[Pete999]

Sparkychick all noted, but go to your nearest wholesaler, Screwfix or Toolstation near you, they are filled with experience but unqualified time served sparky's (very good one's) who are first, second and third fixing, just to get their certs at the end of the job from a qualified electrician. This is the reality as you know well, I know at least three great successful contractors who do this. Inspection and testing complete, all passed, cert supplied, money changes hands, this is the way of the world. Work is safe, customer is safe and more people earning a living...what's new!!

Screwfix and Toolstation all timed served Sparks??

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

More Sparks transferring to Screwfix and Toolstation daily, that's why the likes of Denman's and other Electrical wholesalers are closing branches. Quicker service, Guaranteed more items available in stock, most rates compare with wholesalers and all at the touch of an iPad.

 

[Octopus]

Screwfix and Toolstation all timed served Sparks??

call him Sherlock!

 

[Octopus]

More Sparks transferring to Screwfix and Toolstation daily, that's why the likes of Denman's and other Electrical wholesalers are closing branches. Quicker service, Guaranteed more items available in stock, most rates compare with wholesalers and all at the touch of an iPad.

I've given you a "disagree" because you are wrong.

House bashers like Screwfix, but their products and stock profiles fall well short of the kit most of us actually need.

Anyway, I thought you were a DIYer? If you know so much about the habits of sparks why don't you ask them?

 

[SparkyChick]

The fact that it's taking place does not make it right or legal.

If something were to go wrong I suspect everyone's insurance company would be looking for a get out clause and they'll have been handed one by the people who do this.

I've been asked to do it and refused, just as I've been asked to provide a satisfactory EICR for an installation that was far from it... funnily enough after a 'spark' (and I use the term loosely) had done a disappearing act when it came to signing off because his mate wouldn't supply him with a cert like he usually did. The job had the potential to be truly shocking in the worst way possible... I believe the client eventually found someone mug enough to sign it off though, but that's OK because it's just someone earning a living.

Ultimately I guess it's down to ones character... whether or not they want to knowingly break the law and assist someone else in doing so. Personally I like to sleep soundly at night which is why I don't engage myself in drive by EICRs and signing off other peoples work.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

call him Sherlock!

My name is not Sherlock!!

 

[Octopus]

My name is not Sherlock!!

I was quoting Pete999

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

I totally commend you for that statement and wholly agree with every word you said, but let's put this in context, as you know there are very good electricians who have their work passed off and do earn a living making the end user's environment safe with good design, good practice and a competent and qualified person to complete Inspection and testing at end of install, this is so true of so many...but, so is the fact that irresponsible contractors sign off "Cowboys" work to the danger of the end user...and should be jailed for this practice, this I also understand! I know of one electrician who is very well respected for his knowledge and 30 years experience in this trade and contractors have told me that he is top of his game and.... take advice off him, yet the contractors sign off his work because he does not want to sit the exams and never will!
So, I was just trying to make this point, of course dangerous work cannot be condoned and I would not sleep at night either. Look, this swings both ways... as an end user, about 10 years ago, my bro had an electrician to put in garden lights, and a day before he finished, me... "a DIYer" turned up at my brothers home and found that the termination of the SWA into the junction boxes and light fitments was so shoddy to the point that within a few days there would have been an ingress of water onto live connections, the copper compression glands had not been tightened and the gland sleeves were not present on some fitting, this electrician was signing his own work off the next day leaving a potential death trap and my brothers kids were 3 and 7yrs at the time, I threw him offsite as he argued this was to regs. So, there are as many "electricians" out there that are even more dangerous than "competent persons", as they have the right to sign off their own poor workmanship!! No trade is exempt from this behaviour, unfortunately.
I'm not a Spark, I have been told by a Spark to sit the Part P, but I am fortunate to have a successful career elsewhere, but does not stop me enjoying and being interested in this trade. I respect Good Practise Qualified Electricians and that is why I am on this site to learn without killing anyone!

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

I was quoting Pete999

That's me getting it wrong, sorry Murdoch

 

[Dustydazzler]

When doing house rewires I almost exclusively get my junk from Screwfix and toolstation

Occasionally use TLC for bigger trunking etc

Odd ball bits off eBay etc

Hardly ever use any of the traditional wholesalers these days

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Screwfix is opening a branch monthly, traditional wholesalers are diminishing, unfortunately true, not just in this sector. Wholesalers do not invest in the services and software to allow local pick up within the hour, online shopping all hours, viewing local branch stock immediately, as I mentioned earlier through talking to local sparks, most are converting, simply due to the convenience.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What absolutely killed it stone dead for me was when my local Screwfix could offer me twin and earth cable about 20% cheaper than my local cef or wf

I used to do a lot of subby house bashing for a big electrical firm who were buying twin and earth by the pallet.
I could still get a roll of 2.5 cheaper in Screwfix

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

If you talk to the local Branch Managers, Screwfix are now honed in on all other electrical suppliers and are now gunning for the majority of business to be had, they can only improve with the Backing of the Kingfisher Group. Their prices will get keener and will start stocking the more specialised products as described by Murdoch.