Need Advice - New Kitchen Rewire

[Midwest]

Not wishing to divert the thread, but the OP started it

When I was contracting, small turnover, I used both a wholesaler (Rexel) and Screwfix. I primarily used Screwfix, for MK switches & sockets, which were sourced cheaper than Rexel. The other bread & butter stuff Rexel were cheaper, including tw&e. You just have to ask for a better discount with your wholesaler. Screwfix are open at the weekends, my Rexel isn't.

True enough, you can sit on a PC, and get stuff not in stock next day from Screwfix, & see the price, but you can get a similar service from a decent wholesaler.

Agree though, the only 'local' electrical wholesaler I had, has gone under recently.

 

[Zerax]

If you talk to the local Branch Managers, Screwfix are now honed in on all other electrical suppliers and are now gunning for the majority of business to be had, they can only improve with the Backing of the Kingfisher Group. Their prices will get keener and will start stocking the more specialised products as described by Murdoch.

I've noticed that Screwfix are more expensive on some items these days... it's starting to be a chore comparing pricing with Toolstation on the wholesalers. I even find that B&Q (also part of Kingfisher) can be cheaper than Screwfix sometimes... I think generally they're getting very clever with pricing, making more margin in the process.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

I agree with you all, it is a real shame that even the independent wholesalers are few and far between, but the likes of Screwfix and Toolstation are well-oiled machines with big funding and will only improve, and yes, they will slip in some raised prices here and there (clever retailing). But, I really do hope that the wholesalers survive, because the giants are dominating all sectors of the markets, just look at how empty the high streets are... anyway my apologies, I have diverted the thread, I did come on here originally for advice from you experienced guys and have been well satisfied with the advice received, learned and few things along the way and have had some enjoyable debates and discussions with you all. Glad I joined the forum

 

[Tony Reidy]

Hi Guys
New to forum and enjoying reading the threads, all interesting, so..
Looking to re-wire my kitchen due to re-fit and some of you will be unhappy (understandibly) as I am not a qualified sparky, but I will notify building control and get the work certified and passed. This is simply an interest of mine and I enjoy it, I certainly don't intend killing myself or anyone else in the process and will get in local authorities for cert...so here goes, lot's of reading, bear with me, as I really can do with the help to clarify if I am wrong alltogether or on the right track being a diy'er.

I am now installing at home a built in oven 3.39kW, microwave 900w, induction hob 7.5kW, Fridgefreezer, under counter freezer, washing machine and Cooker hood 250w.

All appliances with 4 meters of DB and Clipped direct to wall behind open cavity, not insulated, 75mm cavity to address 50mm depth regs, don't intend to mechanically protect wiring, due to 75mm deep and RCD protected. Walls plasterboard lined for convenience, all wiring within prescribed zones!

So, would this be correct for regs... I have a
Wylex,14way Split Load DB, 2x 80A/30ma RCD's with the addition of potential seperated RCBO's below:

Oven and Induction Hob - DB 32A RCBO
Appliance's Total = 10.89kW- 47.34A using diversity and if maths correct:-
30% = 11.2A, 11.2A+10A= 21.2A total, so from DB using 6mm cable via 45A CCU down to Dual Cooker Outlet using 6mm cable, seperated and terminated at both appliance's using 6mm cable.

Fridgefreezer and Freezer - on separate 20A RCBO dedicated radials using 2.5mm cable via Switched FCU's down to flex outlet plates.

Washing Machine - I'm sure read somewhere regarding Nusiance tripping, not sure if 17th Edition about putting the likes of the washing machine again, on a dedicated curcuit, 20A RCBO using the usual method mentioned or, I could spur off rfc with Switched FCU down to flex outlet plate. This was when I was told I was over the top and pointless by a Sparky, always learning, even at 50.

Finally Microwave(900watt) and Hood(250watt) total 5A
Could these both appliances be powered via a junction box to separate FCU's and outlet plates, on 10A RCBO dedicated radial curcuit.

I have room for these dedicated radials and can keep the RCD protected Split Loads seperate, would this then be the making of a High Integrity Unit?
DP RCBO's or SP RCBO's, so many views on this, not sure.

If you have read this far, I commend you for your patients and appologise if my terminology is not adequate and certainly look forward to your comments and would really appreciate the feedback.

Your going over the top get a sparks in will save you money

 

[Des 56]

I'm not a Spark, I have been told by a Spark to sit the Part P

What has "sitting the Part P" (whatever that happens to be) got to do with the training required to become a electrician

It seems to me yet again,a building regulation is thought to have something to do with a electrical qualification

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Dee56... This suggestion was made to me in a conversation recently by "A Qualified Spark" as I clearly stated in the thread. If the point you just made is relevant and correct, which I have no reason to doubt, then this is directed at your fellow Spark and validates my point made in an earlier thread (Tues 10:41pm), which does give rise for concern, are all Spark's up to the job?

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Just a question guys, (back to my kitchen install), I have lifted the loft insulations today (large Bungalow) it is an absolute shambles up there, JB's shoddily put together, no sleeving on any cpc's in the boxes, outside lighting connected directly to 32A FRC with a broken JB and even 1.5 cable from that JB's to a 2g socket, which by the way is supplying my livingroom!... not anymore, I might add.... and I won't even go into the cable routing, mind-boggling. So... comes to my question, is it a good idea to lay 150mm medium duty cable tray on ceiling joists to organise and clip all this cable into? rather than clipping directly to joist? (needless, over the top?)

 

[Intoelectrics]

Anything that improves the install is a good thing. What you have to ascertain is whether the cost justifies the ends.
Reminds me years back when I did some sub-contracting work for another electrician. He only did domestic and very small commercial installs (shops and stuff) I had only ever mainly done industrial to this point so doing domestic was a novelty for me (at first). I was clipping a load of cables along the joists on the first floor. I made sure each cable was dead straight and the clips all lined up nicely so it looked very neat.
Later the guy I was doing the job for called in to see how I was progressing. He noticed the cable runs I had clipped and commented "F*** sake that's a neat job, the mice will be well impressed"

 

[Wilko]

Access and current rating are not helped by burying the cables under a mountain of insulation in a loft. So if the cables were run in a tray it would be helpful, but in my experience no one will pay for it.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Thanks guys, I will use the trays, so much neater and the insulation can run under them, reducing rating problems as mentioned, going to order some from TLC today, if you know of a cheaper supplier, please let me know.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Is it from a feasible and regs point of view ok to put the 45amp cooker isolation switch and a number of FSU's (to a number of appliances from the kitchen) in a cupboard in the utility room 10-15 feet away? Other than fuse protection, these switches are for maintenance only and will be easily accessed.

 

[telectrix]

isolation switches should be in close proximity to the appliances. scenario could be a chip pan fire. you can't get close to the hob to turn off: accessible isolation switch within a couple of yards is advisable. then get the wet towels on the job. N.B. if the hob is gas, the above is irrelevant. (apart from the wet towels).

 

[Intoelectrics]

isolation switches should be in close proximity to the appliances. scenario could be a chip pan fire. you can't get close to the hob to turn off: accessible isolation switch within a couple of yards is advisable. then get the wet towels on the job. N.B. if the hob is gas, the above is irrelevant. (apart from the wet towels).

Unless some idiot put the isolation switch in too close proximity in which case you'd get burnt before you could isolate.

 

[telectrix]

if it's too close, it would be melted and unswitchable, maybe a case for a regs.amendment. cooker isolators must be metal.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

interesting comments, the regs even for you qualified Sparks can be interpreted slightly differently, so are these switches for isolation (cooker switch, eg maintenance) or clearly for an emergency, therefore must be reasonably close to the appliance? is there a given distance in the regs?