Need advice please

[dansk]

Hi - Been contacted today by a customer who has had a system installed, but in the mean time the firm has gone into liquidation and they didnt have MCS either! They claimed to work in partnership with another firm - but this turned out to be bull.

He has been on the phone to MCS and they gave him my number amongst others - i want to help him, but i dont know about the procedure to certify this system seen as i havent had anything to do with it - without stating the obvious i will inspect it (including the roof fixings), do the hand over Manuel etc.

Has anyone got any experience of signing of another firms install thats gone bust?

 

[whinmoor]

Sorry, can't really talk from experience but, like yourself, I'd start from a position of wanting to help whilst not making myself liable for someone else's work. My attitude may change depending on my impression of the actual customer.

So, I'd visit and try to get a clear idea of what happened, the kit installed, the paperwork supplied (or not) and the finances. Did the customer pay the full amount & did he get an insurance-backed warranty? It should be pretty easy to determine whether the system is well designed and whether the electrics have been done properly.

As for claiming the FiT, the customer has to prove "ownership" and provide an MCS certificate. So, the question really is whether you're prepared to generate an MCS cert for a job you haven't installed. I think I probably would but the customer would have to sign a number of disclaimers saying we are not responsible for future problems (workmanship or performance).

Such a gesture of goodwill and helpfulness on your part may lead to referrals...

 

[dansk]

True - my thoughts were do the whole manual as if i had installed it, SAP calc bla, bla, bla, check it over etc - its the proof of ownership that could be the sticking point. The guy sounds elderly, certainly older rather than younger, and really nice on the phone, seems like an innocent victim. As you say i don't want to get legged up with all the hassle.

Cheers anyway

 

[whinmoor]

Is it a Ploughcroft job? I heard they were getting back into the roofing game.

 

[Gavin A]

was it that ultra energy lot? heard they'd gone bust again.

I believe you can issue a completion certificate that also counts as proof of ownership.

Personally I think I'd offer to inspect and test it for a fee, then determine if it was of a sufficient standard to certifiy without further works, or needed additional work to bring it up to standard etc.

If it's up to spec I'd just sign it off, work up the paperwork properly, and make up some sort of letter for the guy to sign explaining the situation, that you're taking over from a bankrupt firm etc.

technically it may fall foul of some rule or other, but at the end of the day mcs, real etc all know that we have to bend those rules in these situations to help these guys out otherwise the entire system would be awash with complaints to which etc that'd destroy the industry. I'd rip any assessor to shreds who had a problem with this... not that they'd ever know about it anyway.

TBH though, if MCS have passed him on to them, you could get authorisation from them if you wanted to cover yourself, but do then run the risk of them being arses about it.

 

[finchy]

Sound advice from Gavin ..I'll do the same !

 

[sedgy34]

Why don't you just do an inspection and let the customer know what needs doing if anything

 

[dansk]

Hi all - just seen the replys - i had alreasy figured it out in my mind how i would handle the work side of things, and its the same as the suggestions above - im not going to take on anything thats looks a total dogs dinner without quoting upfront o bring it up to scratch - on the other hand it may well be ok.

For the record - NAPIT and my field officer both advised against taking it on - but - there isnt anything stopping me either - ive got to treat it like i have installed it, issue contract, O/M manual etc. One thing they did say was if you take it on, make sure you go over it with a fine tooth, really did deep and double check.

The guy is happy, im yet to see it, but will do next week - then i will decide if i want to take it on. I think more of this is going to happen so i may as well do one - or at least look at it.

@Gavin - yes its them thats gone bust.

 

[SolarCity]

I went to see a job installed by those bell-ends a few months ago. It wasn't great but it could be rescued.

In all honesty, with a scaffold erection and a couple of days labour I would have thought that most issues could be sorted.

- - - Updated - - -

I went to see a job installed by those bell-ends a few months ago. It wasn't great but it could be rescued.

In all honesty, with a scaffold erection and a couple of days labour I would have thought that most issues could be sorted.

 

[Gavin A]

fwiw the actual workmanship of the job we inspected by that mob in their previous guise was ok, at least what we could see of it without getting up to the roof.

they had installed a seriously undersized inverter though - well outside of spec, and missed the massive chimney to the south of the array out of their SAP calcs, but workmanship wise it was ok.

 

[SolarCity]

The job we went to see had an unfelted roof. By the time we had got there they had already been back to 'fix' a leak.

The spec of the job was reasonable but the inverter was installed on timber and minimum spacing distances for air flow on the inverter had been ignored.

 

[dansk]

Update:

Ironically the customer phoned me yesterday and i was 20 minutes away (i wasn't planning a visit) so i called in for an hour to take a look.

Firstly the system: The standard of work isnt too bad, ive seen worse, its not how i would have done things & its a little scruffy, but it is labeled up and they used 6mm on a 1.5kwp job, new sub board so it could be worse.
The mounting system is schuco using hanger bolts through slate with what looks like so sort of felt under the bolts in case a slate cracks, neat roof work to be honest, but i dont like hanger bolts through slate - but hey ho its my preference.
Now the ugly: The inverter an "omnik" 1500-TL had a fault on it, "Vac" failure - its cutting out at 250v grid voltage - the incoming supply is high at 248v, the inverter boots up and as soon as it reaches 250v it cuts out - can anyone back me up with my thoughts - i think its a European inverter and not destined for the UK, otherwise it range would be up to 259v? is this correct? it says G83 on the inverter label, but nowhere can i see "GB" in the serial number for example or any proof its set to UK - don't forget these are cheap Chinese with not much option to set them up. I will speak to omnik and give them the serial number to identify which country its set to.

Now for the really good part: I was shown the contract also - picture this in your head - elerly couple in there 70's, shiny suit comes in, gives them waffle about this and that, ohh how its going to power the world for you - 6 Canadian solar 250w poly panels, omnik inverter - how much £££ do you think? yes i nearly fell of my stool at £12000 TWELVE THOUSAND POUNDS - Jesus wep and the sad thing he got the cheque book out and paid on the day!!! luckily he came to he senses and complained, they came back and reduced it by £6000 SIX FREAKIN THOUSAND! whaaaattttt honestly are these folk for real? (no pun)

Poor couple, they also told they need LED and optimiser. joke.

I now feel uncomfortable, because the inverter has a fault, ive explained to them, but im going to ask them to bring along a son or daughter for my next visit because i don't want them to feel like im trying it on also. There really upset and confused by it all - very sad case if im honest.

This system has generated 31 units since beginning of Jan, my system i put in last week (granted it is larger) did 33 units last week - let alone a over a month. Robbing C U next tuesdays.

 

[BruceB]

G83/1 limit is 264V. Various European jurisdictions use 253V. That inverter model does have G83/1 certification (from cert on Omnik site). Whether it is in reality on G83 settings is another matter. Often during boot up the inverter will say what it is on, but I do not know the Omnik range. Limits are below:
G83/1

G83/2

 

[sedgy34]

I think most on here have ended up correcting other company's work. Just do what you think is best, at minimum cost

 

[dansk]

Thanks Bruce - as i thought (more or less) i will email Omnik and send the SN for them to check - honestly i cant express how angry i am/disappointed for the customer.

- - - Updated - - -

What the F is REAL all about - it make a mocorary of the system - i will be email Virginia for what good it will do - most likely result in me getting an inspection again...lol.