New Build - Dangerous Electrics

[Spazz]

Just been to a property (new build) and saw this:


Full list of problems:
· The outlet pipe from the toilets terminates in the attic directly next to the extractor fans for both bathrooms, the condensation from this pipe has leaked all into the extractor fans where a puddle had formed – electrical connections in water.
· The extractor fans were buried in insulation causing them to overheat and stop working, this added with the water inside the unit as well generated a very dangerous situation.
· I also replaced a light fitting in the kitchen, to my horror the light cable above the celling was wrapped around the central heating pipes.
· No cable within the property was clipped up, they are all left hanging under their own wait and only supported by wrapping them around wood and water pipes.
· The upstairs bathroom lighting circuit is connected together by choc blocks and covered in 6” of insulation. (pictures attached). With upto 5 cables into each terminal.
· Bare live cables which have ‘snapped’ out of the choc blocks

 

[Victorcrane]

Very good point alarm man! I regularly work with newly qualified sparks who are earning less than lads in supermarkets! I cannot believe how much the wages have been driven down, it's not a lucrative trade for the new kids and that's why they simply don't care. As you say, I'm only 33 but I take great pride in what I do and if I don't think I've done a job the very best I could then I do it again. Younger folks just don't seem to understand that kind of attitude.

 

[alarm man]

they used to say pay peanuts get monkeys,now its pay peanuts and expect the best....somethings gone wrong somewhere and no one noticed what happened..

 

[Victorcrane]

I know one contractor who only employs eastern europeans and apprentices. There's not a single qualified person on the firm aside from him. He basically uses them as labour, most have half a clue but only just. I worked with them for a couple of months last year on a project in London and I was just amazed at the work. They were all on about 6 - 7 pounds an hour and the owner of the firm probably turned up for a total of 3 hours a week and looked around and did the paperwork. He even had them testing with gear they had no idea how to use so I found them filling out test sheets by calculation time and time again.

The owner is a very, very rich man. I bet that's happening everywhere.

 

[alarm man]

I know one contractor who only employs eastern europeans and apprentices. There's not a single qualified person on the firm aside from him. He basically uses them as labour, most have half a clue but only just. I worked with them for a couple of months last year on a project in London and I was just amazed at the work. They were all on about 6 - 7 pounds an hour and the owner of the firm probably turned up for a total of 3 hours a week and looked around and did the paperwork. He even had them testing with gear they had no idea how to use so I found them filling out test sheets by calculation time and time again.

The owner is a very, very rich man. I bet that's happening everywhere.

as they say,you dont get rich by spending money....

 

[PC Electrics]

All sounds about right for new build. The large companies don't seem to ask for quotes any more, they just tell the contractor what he's gonna get for each house. He either throws it in or loses money on it. Simples.

Thing is, as long as it works, there's almost no likelyhood of any serious warranty claims from the customers. So they will almost never get found out or brought to book.

 

[telectrix]

where's dom littlewood when he's needed.

 

[Dave 85]

What kinda money you get for plots of new builds these days? South of england. Say 2 bed semis, pendants in most rooms and 2/3 DSO per room.
I never do any new builds except log cabins, but was always under the impression they dont pay well. My mate does a few and usually gets around £1,500 labour for a fairly good spec 3 bed.

You can still get 3-5 grand for 2/3 bed rewires round my area which in most cases can be done by two blokes in a week.
Seems more worthwhile.

 

[Spazz]

Ha any of this been mention to the original contractor if you are making a claim against a guarantee they have a right to put it right first before anyone can do that.

It came alight last night so it was made safe.
We cant find any evidence of who the original contractor was - we are waiting for the LABC and Public Protection to come back to us now.

 

[Spazz]

I charge for a 2 up 2 down = £2,500

This is a base price for standard install:
1 bathroom and 1 toilet (downstairs)
1 Kitchen
1 Living room


3 Bed = £3,500

Anything extra is more

 

[Spazz]

Just seen the cert the building contractor kept it - didn't give a copy to the home owner when the contract was signed.

Looking at the cert there are a few things way out!

Ze = 0.45 (TN-C-S)????????????????
I get 0.11


on ring
R1+R2 = 0.31
R1 = 1.2
R2 = 0.8
Rn = 0.7
Zs = 0.86

How the hell does he get these results????

Hes an EX-NICEIC member - no longer trading!

There is clearly no end to the radial on the lighting circuit so I could not get R1+R2 readings! - dont know what hes done here!

Rings are Front House and Rear House with 25 sockets on rear ring and 12 on Front - would of made more sense putting Up and Down with even number on each

Cert Stats
DNO fuse is 60A - its 100A
Main fuse is 80A - its 100A
BSEN numbers which dont line up with MCBs/RCD/Main Fuses
Circuit numbers are wrong on board
Only 2.5 T&E on cooker (lucky its only a 2kW cooker
No Isolation for inaccessible sockets under cupboards and behind oven
No Earthing on Class 1 Extractor Fan (not the original cable)

Im waiting for LABC to investigate this now then I got another 3 houses to sort out - all potentially the same!

Im just very glad that this 'Electrician' (COWBOY) is no longer trading!

 

[HandySparks]

There is clearly no end to the radial on the lighting circuit so I could not get R1+R2 readings! - dont know what hes done here!

I don't understand. Are you saying that there wasn't a L and E at any of the lights? Surely, even if you don't know where the "end" of the circuit is, you just record the maximum R1+R2 found?

 

[Guest55]

I don't understand. Are you saying that there wasn't a L and E at any of the lights? Surely, even if you don't know where the "end" of the circuit is, you just record the maximum R1+R2 found?

Agreed , increasing / decreasing earth loop readings give you a good guide as well.

 

[Plonker 3]

Just seen the cert the building contractor kept it - didn't give a copy to the home owner when the contract was signed. If the buildar was the one ordering the work then that is who gets the certificate.

Looking at the cert there are a few things way out!

Ze = 0.45 (TN-C-S)????????????????
I get 0.11 0.45 is above the accepted value, but a Ze reading can fluctuate.


on ring
R1+R2 = 0.31 Not a million miles out for the readings given below
R1 = 1.2
R2 = 0.8
Rn = 0.7
Zs = 0.86

How the hell does he get these results????

Hes an EX-NICEIC member - no longer trading!

There is clearly no end to the radial on the lighting circuit so I could not get R1+R2 readings! - dont know what hes done here! record the highest reading on this circuit, same for Zs

Rings are Front House and Rear House with 25 sockets on rear ring and 12 on Front - would of made more sense putting Up and Down with even number on each. Ease of wiring?

Cert Stats
DNO fuse is 60A - its 100A Could have been changed since install, how did you find out it was 100 Amp?
Main fuse is 80A - its 100A See above.
BSEN numbers which dont line up with MCBs/RCD/Main Fuses hardly crime of the century.
Circuit numbers are wrong on board Compared to what?
Only 2.5 T&E on cooker (lucky its only a 2kW cooker So acceptable as long as OCPD is fine.
No Isolation for inaccessible sockets under cupboards and behind oven Not required by BS7671
No Earthing on Class 1 Extractor Fan (not the original cable)

Im waiting for LABC to investigate this now then I got another 3 houses to sort out - all potentially the same!

Im just very glad that this 'Electrician' (COWBOY) is no longer trading!

My summary on a few of the points in red.


So the worse thing is one Class 1 extractor fan having no earth. hardly going to interest LABC too much is it.

 

[Spazz]

I know its not a million miles from my answer with R1+R2 - but dont know where he got the rest from

My meter fuse blow whilst I was doing this R1+R2 so just bought a new one (today) so I will be going back over there tomorrow to finish off the lighting circuit (should of put this in)
I know the main fuse is 100A because it says on it - it also has a sticker from the DNO of date installed and the current reading.

Dillb - have a look at the pictures on the OP - Every light was in the same situation.

This cert results must have been mad up - just look at R1, R2, Rn results and Zs - nothing added up - not even with the Zs = (R1+R2) + Ze (long way out)

With regards to the wiring there was nothing easier about wiring it the way he did

there was several things of interest to LABC - they investigating the other properties on Monday Morning - meeting them over there at 9am

 

[sedgy34]

the builder is at fault here (always about money)