New Builds, What's Going On...

[OnlQQker]

 

[Dustydazzler]

I know that's why i don't get the 'i'd have to pay them minimum wage' comment.

If you employed 4 men and were only making a fiver an hour off them you're making 40 grand a year for doing nothing except managing 4 men.

As it turns out most companies using this strategy are making around £20 an hour off each man.

The company i used to work for hawks out improvers as 'qualified', pays the improver £9 an hour and charges £40 for them.

Its all about economy of scale with these types of new build contracts thou

Me as a one man band sole trader , If i took on an improver to do a small new build I would have to mentor them , pay them and pay for all of their learning mistakes but Imo their just isn't much margin in it for me. Not enough for all the agro. I can make enough money jobbing on my own without the addition hassle of keeping an eye on an improver.

Now if I took on a couple bigger new build jobs and took on 5 or 6 improvers the economy of scale starts to kick in and I could down tools and make enough money off their backs just to mentor them and keep following them around making sure everything is going to plan.

Years ago I worked for a company in London who had about 9 or 10 improvers and we smashed out shop fits , factory jobs etc and the boss just drove round in his brand new BMW making sure we were doing our jobs. His full time job was simply to make sure that we were doing his job. He even sent his wife out to check up on us when he was abroad playing golf

 

[swaRRR]

Its all about economy of scale with these types of new build contracts thou

Me as a one man band sole trader , If i took on an improver to do a small new build I would have to mentor them , pay them and pay for all of their learning mistakes but Imo their just isn't much margin in it for me. Not enough for all the agro. I can make enough money jobbing on my own without the addition hassle of keeping an eye on an improver.

There are tonnes of 'improvers' out there who are really real electricians they just never got any paperwork. I know several lads who did apprenticeships but either ditched out in their last year or failed one part of an exam etc and just never bothered finishing it, but have worked in the game ever since. Vast experience, lots of skills, don't have to pay as much.

And this doesn't only work with improvers but also with normal electricians.

Pay them £17 an hour, charge the customer £30.

 

[Dustydazzler]

There are tonnes of 'improvers' out there who are really real electricians they just never got any paperwork. I know several lads who did apprenticeships but either ditched out in their last year or failed one part of an exam etc and just never bothered finishing it, but have worked in the game ever since. Vast experience, lots of skills, don't have to pay as much.

And this doesn't only work with improvers but also with normal electricians.

Pay them £17 an hour, charge the customer £30.

I agree that lots of firms operate this way by subbing out jobs to semi skilled workers

But for me a sole operator the reward just isn't worth the additional agro Imo , I am better off just doing my small works and turning down offers of bigger less profitable jobs like new houses

I can make enough money jobbing , doing the odd board change and small rewire etc without having to take on subbies

Heck even trying to get my usual labourer to turn up for £200 a day is hard bloody work and he lets me down more often than not

 

[7029 dave]

I agree that lots of firms operate this way by subbing out jobs to semi skilled workers

But for me a sole operator the reward just isn't worth the additional agro Imo , I am better off just doing my small works and turning down offers of bigger less profitable jobs like new houses

I can make enough money jobbing , doing the odd board change and small rewire etc without having to take on subbies

Heck even trying to get my usual labourer to turn up for £200 a day is hard bloody work and he lets me down more often than not

Blimey DD £200 a day labouring If I was 10years younger I would help you, and maybe I could teach you a thing or two. lol

 

[Dustydazzler]

Blimey DD £200 a day labouring If I was 10years younger I would help you, and maybe I could teach you a thing or two. lol

You would be amazed Dave how hard it is in my area to get anyone half decent to lend you a hand on jobs even when offering top money. Its probably the main reason why I don't take on bigger jobs as I get let down all the time by people who I have lined up to help me labour for a few days. They either don't turn up or ring me last minute and say they can't make it.
Maybe £200 isn't enough ?

 

[nicebutdim]

You would be amazed Dave how hard it is in my area to get anyone half decent to lend you a hand on jobs even when offering top money. Its probably the main reason why I don't take on bigger jobs as I get let down all the time by people who I have lined up to help me labour for a few days. They either don't turn up or ring me last minute and say they can't make it.
Maybe £200 isn't enough ?

£200 seems more than generous for a labourer, but I wouldn't have them letting me down regularly. Anyone can happen upon unforeseen circumstances, but twice in a short space of time and their phone wouldn't ring again.

 

[swaRRR]

You would be amazed Dave how hard it is in my area to get anyone half decent to lend you a hand on jobs even when offering top money. Its probably the main reason why I don't take on bigger jobs as I get let down all the time by people who I have lined up to help me labour for a few days. They either don't turn up or ring me last minute and say they can't make it.
Maybe £200 isn't enough ?

Nah £200 is plenty for a labourer.

Shame i don't live in your area - i turn up every time regardless of the time of the day and always put in a shift.

I don't get some people. It's like they don't like money.

 

[cloverman]

Nah £200 is plenty for a labourer.

Shame i don't live in your area - i turn up every time regardless of the time of the day and always put in a shift.

I don't get some people. It's like they don't like money.

Nah ! They just don't like work.

 

[nicebutdim]

Nah ! They just don't like work.

Too easy to make a living from not working.

 

[swaRRR]

Too easy to make a living from not working.

1 week with Dusty would be the same as you'd get on universal credit for a family for the month. Obviously that's without housing, council tax reduced to zero and all the extra PIP you get for pretending to be depressed, but still.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I guess the trouble is I am only offering Adhoc work to a couple guys I know from way back , I can't afford to pay them a grand per week regularly as I don't do enough big jobs to warrant a full time labourer

In fact I have started just adding an extra day on to most jobs and do all the labouring myself now , its just easier this way rather than booking a guy for 2 or 3 days only to get a text the night before saying they are hungover and not coming

 

[Petej999]

Like most other work on newbuilds, it's all atrocious.

Seen Chipies cut lrterbox slots with a freaking chain saw in hardwood doors, hence the word wood butchers

 

[Petej999]

Seen Chipies cut lrterbox slots with a freaking chain saw in hardwood doors, hence the word wood butchers

Plasterers running out of water for a small mix of patching finish, peeing in a bucket, to save going to the water butt for a cupful of H2O.

 

[7029 dave]

I know that's why i don't get the 'i'd have to pay them minimum wage' comment.

If you employed 4 men and were only making a fiver an hour off them you're making 40 grand a year for doing nothing except managing 4 men.

As it turns out most companies using this strategy are making around £20 an hour off each man.

The company i used to work for hawks out improvers as 'qualified', pays the improver £9 an hour and charges £40 for them.

I have experienced exactly this many many years ago, last college year took exams even before I got my results. I was put on a hospital job all conduit work etc actually running the site electrically, got on with the job. I was 19 years old, foreman said Dave your are doing a great job.
OK lets talk money (by that time had got my exam results pass) will talk to the directors.
Long story short he came back to me with no you need more experience etc lol and Im doing all the F work going to site meetings.
I learnt through the grape vine that the directors were furious with me because I was so young and demanded to be made up and payed the correct rate, but no they just wanted to pay me as a third year apprentice.
Needless to say I left and went straight into subbing for quite a few years £100 a day in the mid 80's was good money.!

 

[swaRRR]

I have experienced exactly this many many years ago, last college year took exams even before I got my results. I was put on a hospital job all conduit work etc actually running the site electrically, got on with the job. I was 19 years old, foreman said Dave your are doing a great job.
OK lets talk money (by that time had got my exam results pass) will talk to the directors.
Long story short he came back to me with no you need more experience etc lol and Im doing all the F work going to site meetings.
I learnt through the grape vine that the directors were furious with me because I was so young and demanded to be made up and payed the correct rate, but no they just wanted to pay me as a third year apprentice.
Needless to say I left and went straight into subbing for quite a few years £100 a day in the mid 80's was good money.!

Oh yeah i've had that at work.

'Remember you're not qualified.'

Yeah but if i'm doing the same job as a time served electrician then i should be getting the same money. If i can't possibly be worth electrician money then i shouldn't be doing electrician work.