new cu changes 1st jan/16

[scootknew]

can someone please clarify this for me im at my wits end,

there are currently no plastic fuse boxes that are non cumbustible for sale from wholesales?

if fit a plastic cu, need to box it in with plaster board ect?

if i wire in new circuit from a new plastic cu to say a socket in hallway, i cant issue minor works cert? then its a fail? then say the client who wanted a £50 socket wired to hall needs to pay 100's to ge cu changed to metal? or enclose it? whos responsibility is it to enclose it? a joniner or builder? they will prob change a **** load too?

any info much appreacited

 

[Englishman]

Which regulation makes a differentiation between hallways and under stairs areas?

Why are you asking me stupid questions? The only thing approaching clarification on this regulation that we've had is from the electrical safety council, which mentions under stairs and escape routes. Therefore, they get a C3, anything else just gets mentioned.

 

[davesparks]

I installed a plastic CU in a hallway adjacent to the front door in a house last summer, it has SPSN rcbos for every circuit except the garage supply (SWA) and has been installed to the best of my ability. Has this suddenly become a safety concern which needs coding on an eicr?

I swear if I hear of anyone coding/condemning any of my work based on this regulation I'll be seeing them in court!

 

[telectrix]

It doesn't look that way. I pity anybody who lets him loose on their electrics.

i dunno. he seems to have admirable qualifications and experience.......................................................







.......................... to get a job with british gas.

 

[Englishman]

I installed a plastic CU in a hallway adjacent to the front door in a house last summer, it has SPSN rcbos for every circuit except the garage supply (SWA) and has been installed to the best of my ability. Has this suddenly become a safety concern which needs coding on an eicr?

I swear if I hear of anyone coding/condemning any of my work based on this regulation I'll be seeing them in court!

Talk to the IET

 

[Englishman]

i dunno. he seems to have admirable qualifications and experience.......................................................







.......................... to get a job with british gas.

If he fails to understand things after this much explanation, then what the hell is he like before he asks the question.

 

[telectrix]

probably received a crack over the head at culloden.

 

[Englishman]

probably received a crack over the head at culloden.

I think he needs (deserves) another one.

 

[davesparks]

Why are you asking me stupid questions? The only thing approaching clarification on this regulation that we've had is from the electrical safety council, which mentions under stairs and escape routes.

Not a stupid question, observations on an eicr need to be based on and preferably referenced to BS7671, if there is no mention of location other than 'domestic' in the regulation how can you code things based on which part of a house they are in?

And the electrical safety council have nothing to do with the IET, BSI or any other body who are involved in the regulations. The ESC is one of the partners of Certsure LLP, that well known business making money out of bull****ting tradesmen and the general public.

 

[Englishman]

Not a stupid question, observations on an eicr need to be based on and preferably referenced to BS7671, if there is no mention of location other than 'domestic' in the regulation how can you code things based on which part of a house they are in?

And the electrical safety council have nothing to do with the IET, BSI or any other body who are involved in the regulations. The ESC is one of the partners of Certsure LLP, that well known business making money out of bull****ting tradesmen and the general public.

Well it was because you know full well that there isn't a regulation that mentions it. The regulation is very vague, as you know, and it's been done to death on here, and probably elsewhere. We all know that the problem with consumer unit fires has nothing to do with the enclosure in the vast majority of cases, but it's now gone into BS7671 and will probably stay there. And the observations are indeed based on BS7671, and these now state that consumer units in a domestic setting should be manufactured of a non combustible material or enclosed in a non combustible enclosure, basically saying that they could pose a fire risk, there is no other conclusion (regardless of how much we agree with it). Therefore, do you not think that, in reference to the regs, a consumer unit made of a combustible material (which the IET are hinting is a potential fire risk), could be improved by enclosing it in a non combustible enclosure or changing it to a non combustible consumer unit?

So arguably, we should code all insulated consumer units as a C3. I only don't because it's both unnecessary and unless a fire is in an escape route, and there are fire alarms, I don't see it as a risk in any way. And obviously the observations cover ourselves.

 

[davesparks]

Well it was because you know full well that there isn't a regulation that mentions it. The regulation is very vague, as you know, and it's been done to death on here, and probably elsewhere. We all know that the problem with consumer unit fires has nothing to do with the enclosure in the vast majority of cases, but it's now gone into BS7671 and will probably stay there. And the observations are indeed based on BS7671, and these now state that consumer units in a domestic setting should be manufactured of a non combustible material or enclosed in a non combustible enclosure, basically saying that they could pose a fire risk, there is no other conclusion (regardless of how much we agree with it). Therefore, do you not think that, in reference to the regs, a consumer unit made of a combustible material (which the IET are hinting is a potential fire risk), could be improved by enclosing it in a non combustible enclosure or changing it to a non combustible consumer unit?

So arguably, we should code all insulated consumer units as a C3. I only don't because it's both unnecessary and unless a fire is in an escape route, and there are fire alarms, I don't see it as a risk in any way. And obviously the observations cover ourselves.

My copy of bs7671, which afaik is up to date, specifically states that the regulation does not come in to effect until 01/01/2016. So as far as I am concerned it is written in to the regulations that any CU fitted before 01/01/2016 is exempt from compliance with that regulation. Therefore I cannot see any justification for applying any code to a Plastic CU fitted before 01/01/2016.

Plus of course they removed the definition of non-combustible from the regulations a few years ago so now we do not have any definition of what constitutes non-combustible. And since every material on this planet will combust if subjected to a suitable temperature there cannot be a material which is absolutely incombustible, only one which is relatively incombustible when measured against a define standard. Until that standard is defined he whole thing is technically nonsense.

 

[Risteard]

if fit a plastic cu, need to box it in with plaster board ect?

Given that steel is given as an example of non-combustible material in the Regulation, then you would need to box it in with steel. The cabinet has the same requirement of non-combustibility as that for the distribution board if not enclosed by a non-combustible cabinet.

 

[davesparks]

Given that steel is given as an example of non-combustible material in the Regulation, then you would need to box it in with steel. The cabinet has the same requirement of non-combustibility as that for the distribution board if not enclosed by a non-combustible cabinet.

Typical of the IET to just use the generic term of 'steel' as the example, it could be any one of the different alloys which fall under the general heading of 'steel' and of course each one has a different specific temperature of ignition.

 

[Risteard]

My copy of bs7671, which afaik is up to date, specifically states that the regulation does not come in to effect until 01/01/2016. So as far as I am concerned it is written in to the regulations that any CU fitted before 01/01/2016 is exempt from compliance with that regulation. Therefore I cannot see any justification for applying any code to a Plastic CU fitted before 01/01/2016.

Unfortunately saying that there is no requirement to comply with the Regulation prior to a certain date does not mean that any installed before that date are fine. If that was the case then there would have been no need for the Regulation.

It is clear that they delayed implementation in order to give manufacturers time to prepare. It's why it wasn't really advisable to install a combustible distribution board even before 1st January, knowing that it would soon become non-compliant. I gave people the choice of which they wanted, having presented the full facts about them being forbidden from 1st January and the reasons. Then it was their decision.

 

[slingshot2000]

You asked about EICRs, extra circuits and minor works, none of which are new installations.

I never asked about anything, I passed a comment about previous posts !

 

[telectrix]

I never asked about anything, I passed a comment about previous posts !

i think dave's post was aimed at the OP, not you. he must have pressed the wrong ---.