New electric cooker causing power to trip at fuse. The fuse is reluctant to flick back on after.

[Stephen]

Hi all.

Thank you all in advance for your help and advice.

I was hoping to get some help and advice on a cooker issue I'm experiencing.

My cooker is "brand new" and I recently had it installed by my father inlaw (competent tradesman although not an electrician)

The cooker is brand new but actually 3 years old... this is because it's an ex display oven from a hardware store (wife works there)

The Cooker will work fine for 20 uses. No issues whatsoever.

But we have had 4 occasions where we haven't been able to use it.

What was happening was we would turn the cooker on and it would trip 10 seconds later. Then we would put power back on then try again and it would trip 4 or 5 times before we sack it off for beans on toast.

We were not using the hob at the same time.

I will also add that when it happened last time the fuse wouldn't come back on. In fact most.times It trips for this reason I have to flick the fuse up multiple times.... that's another point it doesn't trip the rcd it trips everything at the fuse

I found one website that suggested the fuse not wanting to come back on can suggest an earth fault.

I was thinking maybe the wiring came loose in the back of the oven or the sockets maybe.

It can't be the element cause it will work for 20 times on full load with not a single issue and the fact it's brand new really.

I can't see it being an element issue but I'm hoping a knowlegable electrician may have an idea or a way to eliminate possibilities.

The key points are

• I can use the cooker most of the time
• It mostly trips immediately but can be 90 seconds after powering up
• I am not running anything at the same time
• The power trips to the whole house but the fuse board where it is on a separate fuse remains in the "on" position when it trips the electricity.
• When I try and flick the power back on at the fuse I sometimes have to do it 6 or 7 times for it to actually come back on.
• The old cooker never did this so the mains wiring can't be faulty surely.

I really appreciate any help. I am able to use it now but I did trip the power when I first turned it on tonight.

Thank you all in advance and apologies of this isn't the right forum.

Cooker is an AEG competence double oven.

Stephen

 

[Stephen]

I'm assuming the cooker cable comes from the ceiling down to this, has it now moved to the left or right, with this junction box and cable plastered and tiled over?

Ok so your right the cable came from the ceiling... it used to be directly connected to the isolation switch at this location.

In order to move the isolation switches nearer to the Cooker and from the middle of the wall we needed to extend the wiring that's where my father in law contacted a electrician whom said this would be fine. The junction box was used at the location and then left buried in the wall.

Yes it is plastered over.... not tiled.

The cooker wire comes from this location to the isolation sockets.

This then goes to a junction box (cooker one) then from that to the oven

Ok so your right the cable came from the ceiling... it used to be directly connected to the isolation switch at this location.

In order to move the isolation switches nearer to the Cooker and from the middle of the wall we needed to extend the wiring that's where my father in law contacted a electrician whom said this would be fine. The junction box was used at the location and then left buried in the wall.

Yes it is plastered over.... not tiled.

The cooker wire comes from this location to the isolation sockets.

This then goes to a junction box (cooker one) then from that to the oven

When say cooker junction box it's a 1 gang 45 amp box fixed to the wall behind the cooker

 

[Wilko]

Hi - I think its likely your recent works are the cause. The joint(s) or the oven itself. Any Certificate from the new Consumer Unit job? I agree with earlier advice, I think you need a friendly Electrician to help you now .

 

[Stephen]

We've all seen this done before, I think, but it dont make it correct, not just for the reasons already mentioned.

It's one of those things that could be fine and last years but now the OP has a fault these are the things you really wish you hadn't done.

It can be proved that this junction is not the cause of the fault, if that's the case, but it will never be correct and it will always be a potential hazard.

Thanks for your advice.

I appreciate your time to help.

Thank you

 

[Wilko]

Hi - I think its likely your recent works are the cause. The joint(s) or the oven itself. I agree with earlier advice, I think you need a friendly Electrician to help you now. And probably not the one that said burying that JB in the wall was ok, just saying .

 

[Stephen]

Hi - I think its likely your recent works are the cause. The joint(s) or the oven itself. Any Certificate from the new Consumer Unit job? I agree with earlier advice, I think you need a friendly Electrician to help you now .

Yes there is a certificate I believe.

What's best way to find a reputable electrician.

What the likely cost of an investigative visit.

My priority now is to get it tested and checked

Thanks

 

[MFS Electrical]

You disagree with MF connections when buried?

I was wondering that?
maybe was a disagree because it shouldn’t have ever been buried as burying the joint effectively removes the safe zones to run the cable in?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

look for a local guy who has been around a long time. Small guys rely on reputation and if they are long established it is normally a good sign. NICEIC or other schemes are no longer a guarantee of quality. An hours labour should be sufficient to find (but not necessarily rectify) the cause.

 

[123]

Ok so your right the cable came from the ceiling... it used to be directly connected to the isolation switch at this location.

In order to move the isolation switches nearer to the Cooker and from the middle of the wall we needed to extend the wiring that's where my father in law contacted a electrician whom said this would be fine. The junction box was used at the location and then left buried in the wall.

Yes it is plastered over.... not tiled.

The cooker wire comes from this location to the isolation sockets.

This then goes to a junction box (cooker one) then from that to the oven

When say cooker junction box it's a 1 gang 45 amp box fixed to the wall behind the cooker

I wouldn't get your father in law to do more electrical works for you (harsh but true). Also wouldn't get the electrician he contacted who said this would be ok, I'd be getting another electrician out to look at it.

 

[Stephen]

Well I thank you all for your help and comments

more than likely the fault will be due to a fault due to a damp element when I think of it sitting unused for a while

I understand the wiring and works were not done to a standard you all deem acceptable and I will have to save to afford a qualified electrician to test and resolve.

Next steps

• Work overtime
• Get an electrician to test the wiring
• Hopefully find the fault
• Fix it
• Never attempt to sort the kitchen on a budget again.

I am curious would I ever now be able to obtain a certificate of safety with this buried JB?

 

[MFS Electrical]

Well I thank you all for your help and comments

more than likely the fault will be due to a fault due to a damp element when I think of it sitting unused for a while

I understand the wiring and works were not done to a standard you all deem acceptable and I will have to save to afford a qualified electrician to test and resolve.

Next steps

• Work overtime
• Get an electrician to test the wiring
• Hopefully find the fault
• Fix it
• Never attempt to sort the kitchen on a budget again.

I am curious would I ever now be able to obtain a certificate of safety with this buried JB?

Not being funny but no spark in their right mind would ever issue an Electrical installation Certificate or even a minor works certificate for work they haven’t done or at least witnessed every stage of. Anyone who says that they will should really be avoided like the plague. The best you may get is an EICR. (Electrical Installation Condition Report) I’m not familiar with the PART P side of things as I’m not in England or Wales but I don’t think that an EICR would be enough to certify that it complies without additional charges at the very least.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Is it just me or is the edge of that double socket sitting on top of the 45A DP Switch?

quite common with the new metal accessories as they are just that bit wider than older plastic ones so if the back boxes are too close they over lap. i suspect the cause is that they have used dual backboxes so the socket and middle fcu are in same one, not enough space in middle for them, hence the over lap.

 

[SparkyChick]

As I said earlier in the thread... if you want to get it regularised by building control, you'll need to have a chat with them and find out who they'll accept an EICR from.

Once you know who they'll accept it from, you can engage someone and have them do the EICR and then submit it to BC.

I've done one, cost the lady over £300 I think in building control fees, plus my time and materials (in her case 3 days of testing and remedial work).

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

With those AEG ovens they use hex screws and unless you crimp the cable ends you have to split it around the screw. its very easy to get a loose strand that is sticking out touching the oven body. which is at earth potential and then trip the rcd. I have had it happen, turn oven on fine, adjust menus etc... then once it starts heating up and pulling a high current it tripped out. When I went to have a look it was a a single strand I had missed that was poking out underneath rest of the cable. been very attentive with them since and crimping again.

 

[Stephen]

With those AEG ovens they use hex screws and unless you crimp the cable ends you have to split it around the screw. its very easy to get a loose strand that is sticking out touching the oven body. which is at earth potential and then trip the rcd. I have had it happen, turn oven on fine, adjust menus etc... then once it starts heating up and pulling a high current it tripped out. When I went to have a look it was a a single strand I had missed that was poking out underneath rest of the cable. been very attentive with them since and crimping again.

This could well be it you know. I remember it was tough and we made a few attempts with the wiring to split it around the screw neatly.

I will check that.

Thanks Gavin

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Yep,

quite common with the new metal accessories as they are just that bit wider than older plastic ones so if the back boxes are too close they over lap. i suspect the cause is that they have used dual backboxes so the socket and middle fcu are in same one, not enough space in middle for them, hence the over lap.

OP has already said that is was patresses used and an error on there part.