New electric cooker causing power to trip at fuse. The fuse is reluctant to flick back on after.

[Stephen]

Hi all.

Thank you all in advance for your help and advice.

I was hoping to get some help and advice on a cooker issue I'm experiencing.

My cooker is "brand new" and I recently had it installed by my father inlaw (competent tradesman although not an electrician)

The cooker is brand new but actually 3 years old... this is because it's an ex display oven from a hardware store (wife works there)

The Cooker will work fine for 20 uses. No issues whatsoever.

But we have had 4 occasions where we haven't been able to use it.

What was happening was we would turn the cooker on and it would trip 10 seconds later. Then we would put power back on then try again and it would trip 4 or 5 times before we sack it off for beans on toast.

We were not using the hob at the same time.

I will also add that when it happened last time the fuse wouldn't come back on. In fact most.times It trips for this reason I have to flick the fuse up multiple times.... that's another point it doesn't trip the rcd it trips everything at the fuse

I found one website that suggested the fuse not wanting to come back on can suggest an earth fault.

I was thinking maybe the wiring came loose in the back of the oven or the sockets maybe.

It can't be the element cause it will work for 20 times on full load with not a single issue and the fact it's brand new really.

I can't see it being an element issue but I'm hoping a knowlegable electrician may have an idea or a way to eliminate possibilities.

The key points are

• I can use the cooker most of the time
• It mostly trips immediately but can be 90 seconds after powering up
• I am not running anything at the same time
• The power trips to the whole house but the fuse board where it is on a separate fuse remains in the "on" position when it trips the electricity.
• When I try and flick the power back on at the fuse I sometimes have to do it 6 or 7 times for it to actually come back on.
• The old cooker never did this so the mains wiring can't be faulty surely.

I really appreciate any help. I am able to use it now but I did trip the power when I first turned it on tonight.

Thank you all in advance and apologies of this isn't the right forum.

Cooker is an AEG competence double oven.

Stephen

 

[SparkyChick]

This could well be it you know. I remember it was tough and we made a few attempts with the wiring to split it around the screw neatly.

I will check that.

Thanks Gavin

If it is that, I for one would still advise you get that junction box sorted sooner rather than later, particularly as it's easy to forget where such things are placed.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

I was wondering that?
maybe was a disagree because it shouldn’t have ever been buried as burying the joint effectively removes the safe zones to run the cable in?

I thought regulation stipulates that if its inaccessible it must be MF not that it must be accessible full stop, I agree joints behind plaster is less than ideal. I've never had to make a joint to be set behind plaster so be good to know...

 

[MFS Electrical]

I thought regulation stipulates that if its inaccessible it must be MF not that it must be accessible full stop, I agree joints behind plaster is less than ideal. I've never had to make a joint to be set behind plaster so be good to know...

Yeah I think a maintenance free box would be technically ok buried in plaster as long as it had good enough IP rating to prevent the plaster ending up in the box.
But if you remove the accessory that it used to be there then there is no indication that a cable and subsequently a junction Box are there Because by removing the accessory you have removed the thing that you “measure” the safe zones from if the accessory that you remove was say in line with another socket you’d be ok but in my experience those big ugly cooker switches tend to be mounted significantly higher than the sockets so you could end up with a cable running down the wall not in any safe zone.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Yeah I think a maintenance free box would be ok buried in plaster as long as it had good IP rating to prevent the plaster ending up in the box.
But if you remove the accessory that it used to be there then there is no indication that a cable and subsequently a junction Box are there Because by removing the accessory you have removed the thing that you “measure” the safe zones from if the accessory that you remove was say in line with another socket you’d be ok but in my experience those big ugly cooker switches tend to be mounted significantly higher than the sockets so you could end up with a cable running down the wall not in any safe zone

Yea as I said I agree less than ideal, I suppose I depends how far it's being moved as well... 3" or 4" not so bad 12+"... Not sure why I got a disagree for it though @123

 

[MFS Electrical]

Yea as I said I agree less than ideal, I suppose I depends how far it's being moved as well... 3" or 4" not so bad 12+"... Not sure why I got a disagree for it though @123

There will be 101 better ways to do it like MF JB in the ceiling under the floor or even a screw type JB in the attic. Personally when I stick a JB anywhere even if it’s MF I like to make sure it can still be accessed even if there is no requirements for it to be I’ve seen “wago type” connectors either knock offs or other legitimate brands fail spectacularly, so even with MF it probably isn’t the best of ideas to make it totally inaccessible.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

There will be 101 better ways to do it like MF JB in the ceiling under the floor or even a screw type JB in the attic. Personally when I stick a JB anywhere even if it’s MF I like to make sure it can still be accessed even if there is no requirements for it to be I’ve seen “wago type” connectors either knock offs or other legitimate brands fail spectacularly, so even with MF it probably isn’t the best of ideas to make it totally inaccessible.

Meh I was only citing regulation.. Not what was the better answer. Like I said.. Never had to bury a joint in a wall soo..

 

[123]

Yea as I said I agree less than ideal, I suppose I depends how far it's being moved as well... 3" or 4" not so bad 12+"... Not sure why I got a disagree for it though @123

Show me an MF junction box that is suitable to be plastered over, and I'll gladly remove the disagree if I can find the post again. Wagoboxes and the Hager one definitely aren't suitable.

And then you have to take into account safe zones for wiring, which I just don't see why 3" to 4" would be not so bad, it's wrong and none compliant.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Show me an MF junction box that is suitable to be plastered over, and I'll gladly remove the disagree if I can find the post again. Wagoboxes and the Hager one definitely aren't suitable.

And then you have to take into account safe zones for wiring, which I just don't see why 3" to 4" would be not so bad, it's wrong and none compliant.

Nah by all means keep your disagree as I was just asking for clarification.
I swear it's permitted (I'm prob wrong) if its deeper then 50mm? Admittedly that's not likely to be the case.

 

[Midwest]

Just out of interest, when was the current consumer unit installed. I note the new meter was installed in 2017?

 

[Markyd]

Please just get a qualified Electrician to come round and have a look.....And tell the father in law to leave things alone

 

[Octopus]

Yeah ... sounds similar to my cooker.. the one we used was 30amp

Axiom Junction Box 30A 3 Terminal White - https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p28404

I really don't think we have all the facts on this one .......................

 

[Stephen]

I really don't think we have all the facts on this one .......................

I was stood watching....

Father in law put it in... I say we as I went and got all parts....

Other forum members have already pointed out the error of our ways.

If you don't have anything constructive to add like other forum members please just move onto the next post.

Most appreciated

 

[Deuce]

Personally I disagree with anything buried in the wall if there is no indication at all that it's there. It's a disaster waiting to happen if there's cables floating around and no accessories to give even a hint they exist.

Jointing method doesn't come into it.

I could agree with this sentiment all day long. Don't hide anything! Hiding things is just done as it's the cheapest and easiest solution at the time, but invariably leads to confusion and expense at some point down the line.

Also jointing method, for me I have no problem with soundly prepared and well torqued screw terminals. No problem with MF connection either, I'm just not convinced it will end up particularly more reliable in the very long term.

 

[Deuce]

Axiom Junction Box 30A 3 Terminal White - https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p28404

Was this connection box.

Was cooker cable joined inside with screws.

Hmmm... £1.12 not entirely wisely spent. Could you go back into the wall with a small hole, retrieve the junction box and cables and bring them back through the wall and make the connections in a back box with a nice neat blanking plate to cover it? That way it's accessible.

By 'could you' I mean, would it be possible to do it this way, and if so, probably best to get a local spark to do it so he can test everything after making the alterations. Then it's sorted for now and the future.

 

[telectrix]

I was stood watching....

Father in law put it in... I say we as I went and got all parts....

Other forum members have already pointed out the error of our ways.

If you don't have anything constructive to add like other forum members please just move onto the next post.

Most appreciated

Wrexham is not too far from me. I'd be happy to come over and sort it out for you. As I am now semi-retired, my call out charges are somewhat lower than usual. If I can help, then pm me.

 

[Billsays]

Please just get a qualified Electrician to come round and have a look.....And tell the father in law to leave things alone

This..... Get him to remove the Crabtree RCD And get him to sort out the horrible segregation of the circuits at your CCU! You have all your lights and general sockets on one RCD so in the event of a fault on that side of the CCU you will end up in the dark.

 

[Stephen]

Wrexham is not too far from me. I'd be happy to come over and sort it out for you. As I am now semi-retired, my call out charges are somewhat lower than usual. If I can help, then pm me.

Top man. Have a busy weekend or two ahead so I'll let u know