New kitchen does it need own fusebox or change just the mains fusebox?

[Ell4848]

New kitchen will be installed. Do we need to rewire the kitchen? The fusebox we have is ancient and our electrician has recommended to rewire kitchen then have a consumer unit just for the kitchen electrics as he said things may trip because our consumer unit is old but my builder who covers all of this said we can change the main fusebox in the house and he's included first fix electrics in his quote


We are not changing too much when it comes to the electrics, some advice would be very much appreciated

We will be replacing the kitchen light fixture that is already there(ceiling) and replacing with something similar.

The washing machine will need a new socket installed ( double socket) and plumbing as its being moved completely to the opposite side of the kitchen where it is now

Fridge is staying in same location

The gas cooker will be moved approximately 50-60cm to the left of its current location and the new gas cooker will have an electric grill inside, the previous one was all gas (new cooker will have double gas oven with electric grill)

We would want to replace all socket covers currently there as well for aesthetics
Thank you in advance

 

[robd]

But the first fix in the kitchen is rewiring isn't it. Plus we are changing the main consumer unit.

If there is another issue with the electrics it wouldn't be the kitchen right? First fix is before they start decorating

First fix kitchen could mean rewire or it could mean alter existing to new points and layout. Really it is no good asking us, there should be a specification of work to be done and you should understand it. You need to speak to the main contractor to go through these details so you are clear and happy before they proceed. In my experience of being self employed customer satisfaction is all down to communication and expectation levels being set i.e. you understand what it is you are agreeing to them doing before you say yes go ahead.

 

[littlespark]

Ignore the bickering.

Original question was “do I need to rewire the kitchen?”
The answer is, it depends on the condition of the cables. Some electricians may just alter and add to what’s there. Another may insist on it.
It would be easier to do it now before new kitchen goes in.
Does it “need” done?- possibly not.
Is it advisable to be done?- oh yes.

The further question of replacing the fuse board…
Any alterations to the wiring of sockets or lights are required to be protected by rcd. Even if it’s adding a socket or changing a single light point to half a dozen downlights or whatever.

As mentioned, there could be problems lurking in the original wiring on other circuits that needs sorted before they can be connected to an rcd. So replacing the whole fuse board is possible, but could be a lot of time sorting problems.

Adding a second distribution board beside the fuse box just for the kitchen is also a valid solution, but you may think it’s a waste to put it in if you’re planning to replace the entire fuse box in the future.

You could add a second box that is big enough replace the fuse box, but have the spare ways blanked off. Then, in the future, move the circuits from old box to new.


The end result here, is you want a new kitchen fitted, where everything works, and you don’t want to rip bits out of it to repair a fault that could have been fixed before the kitchen went in.
How that is done is up to you through discussions with the guys doing the work.

I’m sure there are good builders out there…. And if your builders electrician suggests rewiring the kitchen, then I’d go with that.
If the builders electrician just adds to what’s there… then you should question it.

We have all come across bodge jobs by builders and kitchen fitters, like I said back in #13: They might cut corners. They might joint a cable and tile over it. They might not add the rcd protection that is now required.


It’s down to you yourself deciding either your own trusted electrician, or the one supplied by the builder, who may have good recommendations, but who you don’t actually know.

 

[Mikegh]

First fix kitchen could mean rewire or it could mean alter existing to new points and layout. Really it is no good asking us, there should be a specification of work to be done and you should understand it. You need to speak to the main contractor to go through these details so you are clear and happy before they proceed. In my experience of being self employed customer satisfaction is all down to communication and expectation levels being set i.e. you understand what it is you are agreeing to them doing before you say yes go ahead.

^ you're right there ,I shouldnt have called 1st fix a rewire , it may just be extending kitchen circuits as you say

In my world when a builder gives an all inclusive price , he's included his electricians price plus a markup

At the dodgier end of the business some builders will be hiring unqualified guys to boost their overall profit, never really heard of this with respectable builders

 

[DPG]

^ you're right there ,I shouldnt have called 1st fix a rewire , it may just be extending kitchen circuits as you say

In my world when a builder gives an all inclusive price , he's included his electricians price plus a markup

At the dodgier end of the business some builders will be hiring unqualified guys to boost their overall profit, never really heard of this with respectable builders

Absolutely. It's certainly not correct to say that all building companies that include electrical work in projects are no good.

It's like saying all lecturers are no good, or all training colleges are no good.

After all, I'm sure we'd all be a bit upset if someone had a bad experience with an electrician, and then went round saying all sparkies are no good.

 

[Mikegh]

Absolutely. It's certainly not correct to say that all building companies that include electrical work in projects are no good.

It's like saying all lecturers are no good, or all training colleges are no good.

After all, I'm sure we'd all be a bit upset if someone had a bad experience with an electrician, and then went round saying all sparkies are no good.

Most of the semi-dodgy builders will still get a registered electrician ime anyway

They just don't want the hassle that comes with using bad sparks

 

[brianmoooore]

You could add a second box that is big enough replace the fuse box, but have the spare ways blanked off. Then, in the future, move the circuits from old box to new.

I was just going to post something similar, but I'll repeat littlespark's post instead.
The existing fusebox is in a position that is unacceptable to comply with current regs and recommendations so mount the a new one of sufficient capacity to serve the whole house in an acceptable position, preferably moving the incoming supply to feed it, and then feeding the existing board temporarily from the new, via a RCD or RCBO. If this results in this RCD tripping, then that just proves that a part of the original wiring is in a dangerous condition, and obviously this will need to be addressed immediately.
Some might question connecting the whole original board as a 'final circuit' from the new board, if this 'circuit' does not comply with modern regs., but this is where I consider a qualified electrician should be able to over rule the letter of the regs with his expertise.

 

[Ell4848]

^ you're right there ,I shouldnt have called 1st fix a rewire , it may just be extending kitchen circuits as you say

In my world when a builder gives an all inclusive price , he's included his electricians price plus a markup

At the dodgier end of the business some builders will be hiring unqualified guys to boost their overall profit, never really heard of this with respectable builders

Guys,
the builders electrician will be doing 1st & 2nd fix electrics in the kitchen & changing the fusebox, however he said they can't issue a certificate without testing the rest of the house and because he's only doing that its very difficult to get a certificate

Am I able to at least get a minor works certificate? Doesn't changing fusebox require a certificate & building control?

 

[SJD]

Yes, changing a fuse box requires a certificate and notification to building control. A minor works certificate is not appropriate for a new consumer unit / fuse box.

All circuits on the new unit should be tested to ensure they are satisfactory for continued service (sorry, I've not read all 50+ posts, so don't understand why that is not being done).

EDIT: Are you sure the builders electrician is a member of a CPS and able to notify the work. It just occurred to me he could be looking for an excuse not to because he is unable to notify?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Guys,
the builders electrician will be doing 1st & 2nd fix electrics in the kitchen & changing the fusebox, however he said they can't issue a certificate without testing the rest of the house and because he's only doing that its very difficult to get a certificate

Am I able to at least get a minor works certificate? Doesn't changing fusebox require a certificate & building control?

Changing fusebox requires full testing of all circuits. A full EIC certificate must be issued, and building control notification.

GET ANOTHER ELECTRICIAN TO DO THIS WORK

 

[Ell4848]

Yes, changing a fuse box requires a certificate and notification to building control. A minor works certificate is not appropriate for a new consumer unit / fuse box.

All circuits on the new unit should be tested to ensure they are satisfactory for continued service (sorry, I've not read all 50+ posts, so don't understand why that is not being done).

EDIT: Are you sure the builders electrician is a member of a CPS and able to notify the work. It just occurred to me he could be looking for an excuse not to because he is unable to notify?

 

[Ell4848]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

 

[SJD]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

Either (a) the electrician tests all the house and issues an EIC plus notifies the work, or (b) you get someone else to change the consumer unit who can test all the house etc.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The kitchen is being refurbished completely & the electrician is doing first and 2nd fix electrics with a new main fusebox

They are registered but are not testing the rest of the house. What options do I have for certification if only these things will be done?

My previous post tells you all you need to know. It is as simple as that. If the electrician won't provide this, you have 2 choices:

1 - Accept that you are taking a gamble by using an electrician that won't issue proper certification, and will not carry out compliant work.

2 - GET SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THE WORK

 

[Ell4848]

Either (a) the electrician tests all the house and issues an EIC plus notifies the work, or (b) you get someone else to change the consumer unit who can test all the house etc.

If we get another electrician to do the fusebox & the builders later add to the circuit how does that work? Would i need another certificate for added circuits or can their electrician work with a fusebox installed by another electrician,?

 

[SJD]

If we get another electrician to do the fusebox & the builders later add to the circuit how does that work? Would i need another certificate for added circuits or can their electrician work with a fusebox installed by another electrician,?

A certificate is required for any new circuit, the bulders electrician should be able to supply that - covering just the new circuit(s). If not, then he should not be doing the work!

And yes, I often install a consumer unit and new circuits are added later by someone else, e.g. for a new kitchen.

EDIT again: Are you really sure the electrician is still registered. I was talking to my CPS assessor yesterday, it seems many contractors have just 'disappeared' over the last 18 months, presumably because they no longer had the funds to continue their scheme membership.