New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

[Debrahim]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm surprised you aren't using full RCBO boards in high end projects.

High end in name and selling price, profit is God.

 

[timhoward]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all.

I take your point that it isn't 'per se' wrong. But equally we can't say that in all circumstances it's not a problem at all.
Much as before we do a board change we IR test everything to check for faults that would cause an RCD to trip, we'd need to do some cumulative leakage measurements before stating with confidence that a dual-RCD board wouldn't cause issues.
I would maintain it is definitely an unwise choice for some installations, especially older ones.

My personal view is that we're not doing customers any favours by fitting boards that will take out half their house under fault conditions, especially with the rise in outside sockets, driveway/garden lighting, powered outbuildings, hot tubs, EV chargers etc.

Of course whichever RCD technology is used, a major problem is that it never gets tested/exercised and it may not actually do it's job at all if it sits there for many years without exercise. I'd like to think that RCBO's are more convenient for a customer to test at suitable times and fractionally more likely to get tested. That is probably wishful thinking in reality though! But if they have a 2% chance of being tested, a main-switch RCD / split load / dual RCD board is surely pretty much 0%.

 

[ipf]

Don't put sockets and lights on the same RCBO. Or was that a TYPO?

Is that some sort of device that prints out when it trips?

Take Your Pick with Over protection?

 

[Midwest]

You have been advised wrong - Installing dual RCD CU is not a problem at all. Currently we are installing the same Hagger CU in luxury apartments complex. If you want to know about what is legal or not, I think you have to consult a lawer. BS7671 is actually not a legal document.

Not up to dated on the latest regs on RCBO's use in design, but the date of design can sometimes dictate on which of the particular revision of BS7671, is used for the installation.

And whilst BS7671 is not statutory, a lot of other legislation, ESQC, Part P etc, refers to it as a standard to achieve.

 

[Mobisystems]

I take your point that it isn't 'per se' wrong. But equally we can't say that in all circumstances it's not a problem at all.
Much as before we do a board change we IR test everything to check for faults that would cause an RCD to trip, we'd need to do some cumulative leakage measurements before stating with confidence that a dual-RCD board wouldn't cause issues.
I would maintain it is definitely an unwise choice for some installations, especially older ones.

My personal view is that we're not doing customers any favours by fitting boards that will take out half their house under fault conditions, especially with the rise in outside sockets, driveway/garden lighting, powered outbuildings, hot tubs, EV chargers etc.

Of course whichever RCD technology is used, a major problem is that it never gets tested/exercised and it may not actually do it's job at all if it sits there for many years without exercise. I'd like to think that RCBO's are more convenient for a customer to test at suitable times and fractionally more likely to get tested. That is probably wishful thinking in reality though! But if they have a 2% chance of being tested, a main-switch RCD / split load / dual RCD board is surely pretty much 0%.

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

 

[Mobisystems]

High end in name and selling price, profit is God.

absolutely. cheapest offer always wins.

 

[mainline]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Perfect wiring isn't going to help with cumulative earth leakage of appliances etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Design is only one aspect of this - none of us know what appliances will be powered within a domestic installation, but we do know that many are intended to leak current to earth. However unlikely it might be that such appliances could cause an RCD to trip, it is considerably more likely to happen when one device protects a number of circuits.

 

[mainline]

absolutely. cheapest offer always wins.

Do these hager split boards your fitting have spd/afdd ?
I'm still trying to work out why a full rcbo Cu isn't fitted, as the cost aspect shouldn't be a lot of difference between hager split cu/fusebox rcbo one.

 

[mainline]

RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's.

There shouldn't be any difference with regard to the rcd side of the rcbo compared to a stand-alone rcd, In fact it should be less so due to the more likely it is that the rcbo would have less circuits to contend with.

 

[DPG]

I was refering to a new circuit design. If tested properly, there should be no faults/leakages. Regarding old installations on my personal experience, RCBO's are more sensitive regarding nuisanse tripping , more often than RCD's. Regarding customers test button tripping the RCD/RCBO's - no one is doing it, even I am not doing it at home.

Can you explain your comment about RCBOs being more sensitive to nuisance tripping?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Do these hager split boards your fitting have spd/afdd ?
I'm still trying to work out why a full rcbo Cu isn't fitted, as the cost aspect shouldn't be a lot of difference between hager split cu/fusebox rcbo one.

From memory, the difference in price between the 2 brands for dual RCD is minimal (Hager actually being cheaper if you need 100A RCDs IIRC). Once you start adding RCBOs and SPDs the price difference becomes obvious though, and fusebox wins by some way.

A recent estimate for 9 circuits put fusebox RCBO + SPD £115 more than Hager 2RCD (no SPD), so there can be a bit of a difference in price between them.

Fusebox are ok, it's what I offer as my budget choice, but Hager is better quality IMO. I give my customers the choice, and let them decide

 

[mainline]

From memory, the difference in price between the 2 brands for dual RCD is minimal (Hager actually being cheaper if you need 100A RCDs IIRC). Once you start adding RCBOs and SPDs the price difference becomes obvious though, and fusebox wins by some way.

A recent estimate for 9 circuits put fusebox RCBO + SPD £115 more than Hager 2RCD (no SPD), so there can be a bit of a difference in price between them.

Fusebox are ok, it's what I offer as my budget choice, but Hager is better quality IMO. I give my customers the choice, and let them decide

How much is a hager 2rcd with spd ?




Fusebox is the go to for me, at least for now, as it suits the price range vs quality and bits are readily available.

I'm lucky in the respect in that I don't have to deal with any customers, it's “more this is what we want doing” what do we need to order.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

How much is a hager 2rcd with spd ?

I don't have a breakdown of costs, but suprisingly my last estimate came in a tenner cheaper than a fusebox 2RCD w/ SPD. I think this is because I (almost) always fit boards with 100A RCDs. The same fusebox board with 80A RCDs is a lot cheaper than one with 100A RCDs. But you don't generally know what the main fuse will be until you've pulled it, so for me it's gotta be 100A.

 

[Gazza66]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

Old colours and new colours? Not a rewire but partial rewire. DB looks like a hand grenade was thrown in it. ‘Electromagnetic field resulting in humming’ - lost for words on that but crying with laughter. Lights down 1 cct, lights up 1 cct, lights outside 1 cct - that’s how I’ve always done it..!