new shop in leeds

[tony.towa]

Have you thought about using SY, you're using it internally and it's nice and easy to get round your tray. Also will go into 4343's neatly.
Interlocked 4343 sockets are readily available with theplug being mechanically locked in when the integral isolator is switched on. strange as it may sound Gewiss do a good little unit for SP&N 16amp.
It was the fridges I had to install the supplies for but the shop also has air con fitted at the same time so had that to do aswell.

 

[sparkyork]

yeah thought about it but didnt think about it enough, makes sense i suppose, ill get a price from wholesaler in the morning for a drum of it. think im gonna supply each fridge seperately

 

[sparkyork]

hi all, had me 1st day on the job today, got a bit of tray on the wall, took me a while to get back into the swing of things! ill get some pics uploaded 2moro.

customer didnt like my £1.29 per metre price tag for sy, and didnt want swa either. so im doing it in T&E, pealing off the tray down a small amount of conduit into the commandos.

checked the supply at the back of the unit and its dead so he needs to get his landlord to do something about that! theres defo 3 phases there aswell. its a 4 core 25mm swa, but im a little concerned theres no seperate earth ran with it. should i recommend my customer asks for this to be instated? i know you can use the armouring but i dont like it not one bit! also the isolator says 63a in the bottom right corner, im presuming this means 63a per phase capacity? hopefully get in the meter room 2moro and really see whats going on.

 

[wayne]

swa as earth is ok BUT IT NEEDS CALCULATING we did a job and had to run a seperate earth after calcs 25mm over 50m.
also bonding needs taking account of ......again someone else can give better advice

 

[sparkyork]

yeah i just dont trust it, i like to see a nice big seperate earth. its only gonna be 10-15m run at the very most, there is a water supply coming into the unit so im gonna stick a bond on that as well. as well as a supp bond to me cable tray? gonna do some reading tongight on rcd's in commercials or is it simply gonna be rcbo's on everything as there will be no cables below 50mm etc?

 

[jibtech]

looks like a nice job good luck godspeed

 

[sparkyork]

chrers jib, yeah should be a good number really!

got another wee question:-

the tray im installing is well out of reach and is gonna be unseen when a plynth unit is made to cover it all up.
however the back end of the shop (approx half its length) is gonna have a mezaninne floor fitted, with a staircase on the left hand side against the wall, my worry is this, when potential public is walking up the stairs, when there half way up, if they really wanted to they could touch my cable tray and the cables on it, should i be concerned by this or??????

 

[jibtech]

can you run a big bit of trunking through there?

i dont know about regs wise.... its late

but i thought ah so what if they touch....but what if they pull lol

oh and i always get the waterpump plyers on the edges of the flange of the tray and squeeze em together yknow where the v cuts are makes em look proper bo!

another idea in the stairwell bolt a peice of tray upturned over the actual peice holding the cable thatll learn em!

 

[Shakey]

yeah i just dont trust it, i like to see a nice big seperate earth. its only gonna be 10-15m run at the very most, there is a water supply coming into the unit so im gonna stick a bond on that as well. as well as a supp bond to me cable tray? gonna do some reading tongight on rcd's in commercials or is it simply gonna be rcbo's on everything as there will be no cables below 50mm etc?

why would you supp bond the tray? it is not extraneous is it????

 

[sparkyork]

good idea that jibtech, been on site today and client did say he could incorporate some sort of removable boxing to cover it all up, so will see whats best a bit nearer the time.

shakey, i was thinking with there been around 50-60m of tray that there could be potential for some kind of problem to occur and was just gonna bond it for peace of mind really, spech as the majority of cabling is gonna be t & e on it. let us know either way me old fruit about the best solution (if any) lol
i must admit i do generally go over the top with stuff, like if it needs just 2 clips/cleats ill give it 3 etc lol

rich

just to add to the above aswell:

the ceiling is 5.5m high and ive got conduit running to through box's etc for the lighting connections. im thinking of using them klix thingys! is there likely to be any sort of problem with the actual connection been 5.5m high? it may be awkward to get to once the shop is full of stock and shelving etc.

or am i worrying to much as usual?

 

[wayne]

with regards tray ,the question is ;is it an exposed conductive part ?
this answer is the regs regard it so .first look up exposed conductive part then look up electrical equipment in the definitions
klik assemblies make life easier for maintenance ,lamp replacement luminaire replacement ,testing ....if they are drawing a lot of current consider a plug and socket arrangement

 

[Shakey]

with regards tray ,the question is ;is it an exposed conductive part ?
this answer is the regs regard it so .first look up exposed conductive part then look up electrical equipment in the definitions
klik assemblies make life easier for maintenance ,lamp replacement luminaire replacement ,testing ....if they are drawing a lot of current consider a plug and socket arrangement

well i dont think a tray is either exposed or extraneous

it is not part of any electrical equipment (so cant be exposed conductive part)

and is unlikely to be an extraneous conductive part, unless its attatched to structural steelwork etc

Trouble with supp bonding, it is not always safer to do it, it is safer not to do it

it could be entriely isoalted from the electrical system, but you are 'introducing' a possible fault path by bonding?

why do i feel a big discussion coming on

 

[wayne]

oh we love these "discussions"
extraneous conductive parts are liable to introduce a potential from outside the equipotential zone and need equipotential bonding not supplementry bonding
with regards tray ,i'm just quoting definitions, bond /dont bond the choice is yours

 

[sparkyork]

cheers guys, guess its always gonna be someone does it this way and another that way, when i was working in nottingham converting an old school in to appartments they had us 10mm bonding all the rsj's as well.
dont know what to do for the best really, i can see how it can be a problem bonding the tray but can also see a problem i f i dont! lol.

as with the lighting, theres gonna be 3 banks of 2no 150w hid's ( i think!) so prsuming klix will be suffiicent, im also toying with the idea of giving these 3 lighting banks there own supplys as well (remembering your recent thread wayne about problems with these on a smaller scale tho)

should i worry about the klix connection been probably really hard to get to once its all finished? then again what happens at other commercial buildings same thing init really

cheers

rich

 

[Shakey]

oh we love these "discussions"
extraneous conductive parts are liable to introduce a potential from outside the equipotential zone and need equipotential bonding not supplementry bonding
with regards tray ,i'm just quoting definitions, bond /dont bond the choice is yours

hmmmm Wayne old chap, so why do we supp bond extraneous in bathrooms then?

or did before the 17th