NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC Blackmail

[Brightspark2]

So all NIC sparks who are AC are competent?

Who said that?...

I'd say a higher number of registered sparks are component compared to non registered sparks.

We all know the horror story's but how are companies, councils whoever supposed to know that you have the ability and are competent?

That is with reference to you saying

But surly you get the job based on ability not because you pay a third party to be allowed to bid on it

 

[Plonker 3]

Who said that?...



We all know the horror story's but how are companies, councils whoever supposed to know that you have the ability and are competent?

How do they know you have the ability?...


Maybe there could be a third party to verify this?...NICEIC already are a third party

Its the NIC that we are discussing and why should someopne who pays a premium be able to tender for certain jobs. A level playing field is what is needed similar to installing gas.

 

[ipf]

High tower you have been completely roped in. Sparks were trading just fine before the nic evolved

Yes they were, but , then again, we had an industrial and domestic trade with time served men, apprentices and labourers with plenty of work to go round. Twenty five years ago the NIC members were among the elite and were treated and respected as so. If something had mentioned something known as a 'domestic installer' it would have been treated as a figment of imagination.
How things change, being dragged into part P issues and turning into a cash making machine and, to some, a necessity (self included, worse luck).

 

[Welchyboy1]

So all NIC sparks who are AC are competent?

Having been registered with elecsa for two years, niceic DI for 3 years and then NiC AC for 3 years, i can say with a fair bit of experience that the NIC AC may have cost me a grand a year but it earns me probably three times that in insurance EICRs and council work alone, and its the ONLY scheme that helps you getting work

If you cant see it as an investment in your business then you've got blinkers on, sure id rather not join anyone at all but thats life. either join them or dont but thats just the way it is

Its also the hardest and most thorough assessment so far and i am always nervous come assessment time unlike the other domestic schemes. (which i personally think are a joke), can you test an RCD yep, can you do a ZS on that socket, yep, ok your in!

and they aint afraid to fail you in the slightest

Large NIC AC companies that have lots of subbies and installers working under one QS are bound to have lower standards and cowboy jobs slip under the radar, but over a broad general spectrum a small outfit/one man band that has NIC AC are generally quite good from my experience

Brizospark, unfortunatley while there are so many people like you just sitting around moaning about things like this, instead of facing up and taking the initiative of a situation that just aint gonna change, then there are gonna be people like me taking on all that work that you cant tender for and earning well from it!

 

[Plonker 3]

and its the ONLY scheme that helps you getting work

So what do the NIC do for you that helps you get work?

 

[Plonker 3]

Would also be intresting to know what exactly the companies and such like who stipulate NIC contractors what they actually know about them.

 

[Welchyboy1]

So what do the NIC do for you that helps you get work?

I would say first off they have made it seem to most councils, insurances, nhs, government and a lot of specifiers that your not competant if your not registered with them(not saying that is the case BTW)

their marketing machine is also huge compared to any of the others

 

[UNG]

I would say first off they have made it seem to most councils, insurances, nhs, government and a lot of specifiers that your not competant if your not registered with them(not saying that is the case BTW)

their marketing machine is also huge compared to any of the others

If you listen to some of the younger council building surveyors (I know a few) "we do it that way because that is the way it has always been done" no one in any of these organisations has ever thought to review and where needed update their age old practices which just rumble on like the dinosaur they have become and nobody likes to rock the boat and challenge them.

The NIC are living on their past respect IMO and those who keep blindly specifying NIC are just not up to date or are being sold a pup by Certsure

 

[ipf]

If you listen to some of the younger council building surveyors (I know a few) "we do it that way because that is the way it has always been done" no one in any of these organisations has ever thought to review and where needed update their age old practices which just rumble on like the dinosaur they have become and nobody likes to rock the boat and challenge them.

The NIC are living on their past respect IMO and those who keep blindly specifying NIC are just not up to date or are being sold a pup by Certsure

Maybe the case, but at least there used to be electrical clerk of works' who knew what they were talking about and made sure the job was carried out to correct standards and spec. Don't see much of that these days.....just new 'it works, must be OK' guys who couldn't care a tinker's ----.

 

[shanky887614]

Maybe the case, but at least there used to be electrical clerk of works' who knew what they were talking about and made sure the job was carried out to correct standards and spec. Don't see much of that these days.....just new 'it works, must be OK' guys who couldn't care a tinker's ----.

Still an electrical clerk of works in nhs hospitals ive been to

 

[ipf]

Still an electrical clerk of works in nhs hospitals ive been to

Try local councils, hospitals are a different field. It's all about annual budgets and we know which way they are going. The more they farm out the responsibility onto the contractor, the less they have to pay.

 

[Brightspark2]

Its the NIC that we are discussing and why should someopne who pays a premium be able to tender for certain jobs.

I know they are thats what I was getting at you see...

AND

Because they have paid to have there work verified by a third party (Even if there are flaws). Companies, councils etc see this as reassurance.

A level playing field is what is needed similar to installing gas.

Yes I know what your saying. I do agree.

 

[Zeno]

Rubbish! The difference between NIC and CORGI/Gas Safe is that it is a legal requirement for gas engineers to be gas safe qualified to carry out work on gas pipes etc. the NIC and all the other schemes are self governed, profiteering leeches who are in no way affiliated with the IEEE, who electricians are legally required to adhere to

The difference between the NICEIC and Gas Safe is, Gas safe costs £186 a year, the NICEIC £444. The NICEIC only requires one person per company to be assessed and Competent, Gas Safe requires individual Competence which is the only legal solution.
As everyone completing a certificate is legally responsible for it, not just the Company.

 

[imago]

I this year's assessment coming up in a couple of weeks with ELECSA, I've paid my £500:00 or whatever it was. I'll do it next year too, and any year after that when I continue to do work which requires signing off under the regs in force at the time.

I'd prefer not to pay it, but that's the way it is. Crying about it on a forum would serve no more purpose than complaining about the weather. If your business can't afford the fee, then whilst you may be an excellent electrician, you're not running the business side of things correctly. Diesel for example is a large annual cost, many times that of my scheme membership. But the thing they have in common is that they are both included in my costings.

As for JIB being better than the rest, don't make me laugh! It's their intransigence and blinkered approach that allowed the others to take over. Between JIB and the unions you have the two main causes for the current ills within the trade. They thought they had it all in their control and saw no need to change. So with their heads firmly stuck up their own waste outlets they let the world move on without them. The time for JIB to take over was when the discussions started and before the NIC et al got involved. The horse has not only bolted now, but he's lived a full life and died peacefully in his sleep of old age.

 

[Zeno]

NAPIT have asked all Councils if they will accept a NAPIT member to carry out work for them, over 95% have stated that they would. I agree that you will have to challenge the Council, as the contracts departments don't have a clue. If you are a NAPIT member call them, and they will sort it. But you will have to do something not just moan. Contractors are a problem as they can set any rule they want, as they benefit from using casual labour, or non Electricians to undercut real Electricians.