NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC Complaint? Waste of time.

[Intoelectrics]

It's all a bit confusing. When I last had my Napit assessment they were very thorough. in fact, before that when it was Stroma, they were also thorough but Napit were very thorough. It does sound like they are not interested in complaints though.

I can't understand why they act professionally when it comes to yearly assessments, but not so with complaints regarding shoddy work.

If this is your home and you are still concerned about the safety of it, I would continue asking questions on here until you feel you have more knowledge about what exactly is wrong with the house (backed up by regulations) and then take it to UKAS (or whatever the body was that was mentioned in an earlier post). Frustrating for you though and I hope you get to a position where you are happy with the house.

Yeah, it all does seem a bit ad hoc.
My guess is that if the scheme bodies make the assessments more stringent and the electricians have to be more thorough to pass, then in general they probably feel that the vast majority are going to stay compliant throughout their jobs. Obviously there will always be those that scam the scams and offer up examples that they have either had someone else do, or actually spent the time and effort to get the odd installation right just for assessment purposes, with no regard to any other work they produce there after.

This shouldn't however excuse the scams (schemes) from following up complaints and doing something about any dodgy members that are ruining the reputation of the genuine trades people and also the scam itself!

 

[Dustydazzler]

I know a couple scam registered sparks who are rough as ---- , but they are always busy. they openly admit that they only show their scam 2 or 3 'select' jobs when it comes to their site inspection

the rest go 'under the radar' and are right old lash ups like the OP

normally these types of trades are always rushing to get as many jobs done as possible or simply just don't give a ----

scams or no scams this won't change

 

[pirate]

You all know my views on new-builds, but sadly this is what to expect these days from many mainstream builders. The problem lies in builders asking electricians (maybe) to first and second fix new builds for a totally unrealistically low price.
Just wondering if that loose wire in #4 is the same wire that was "stabbed" in #3? Not a normal method of connection, but apparently common in other countries...
Anyway, if the property has NHBC status, you could raise a complaint with them, but in my experience all you would do is add another heartache to the problem. They are useless at such stuff, have no interest whatsoever in resolving complaints, but are adept at getting their per house fee for each new property and giving out a glossy brochure to welcome the first owner to his badly built piece of sh!t...oh, and some very bad news about the build quality too...don't expect any!

 

[Last plumber]

I came across a new consumer unit install with no earth. That was put in by an NICEIC registered electrician. All the paperwork was there with text book figures but he must have had little experience and obviously hadn't tested it. If he had tested it, he would have recognized that there was an issue, hopefully.

I have met a registered gas installer who used KOS fire cement as jointing paste because it was the same colour as jointing compound and a bit sticky! He had replaced a number of multifunctional gas valves in different properties before some other gas fitter noticed what he was doing.

I have reported a builder for erecting and glazing a conservatory with the boiler flue still in use. That was direct to HSE RIDDOR. They spoke to the home owner to advise not using the boiler. No comment to the builder was made.

We can all make mistakes but the things mentioned in this thread are not mistakes in my opinion. More often than not they are incompetence. The incompetence obviously swerves its way around the inspections and exam process doesn't it? How do these people become registered and deemed competent?

At the end of the day, the system only seems to come into play when there is injury, death, damage to property etc. I suppose that's the idea because until something actually happens, nothing happened!

Frustrating for those of us who work to the book. It costs a fortune to be legal and above board. At least you can sleep at night.

 

[UNG]

Does it have NHBC cover, they're probably just as bad as any other trade organisation but the more bodies involved the better?

The NHBC run by the builders for the builders in an attempt to give themselves some credibility, looked into making a complaint to them about a previous property I owned and decided it was much cheaper to fix the problem myself than pay the fee to make a complaint with the chance of it being successful stacked against me

 

[someconsumer]

Is this a new build built by a national housebuilder or by a local developer and did you pay 1 single payment to them?
If so your complaint and retribution is with the company you paid the money to.

It then doesn't matter whether the electrician, landscape gardener or painter missed out the CPC and created the C2's etc it's for the person with whom you had a contract and who received your money, to sort out.

If it went to court you can't pursue the trades as you didn't employ them.

If however it was self build or you paid trades individually then it is your problem to deal with.

Does it have NHBC cover, they're probably just as bad as any other trade organisation but the more bodies involved the better?

Purchased from a new builder (not a national one or self build).

The NICEIC essentially blamed the builder.

4 storey I would expect probably does need fire rated downlights.

Post a redacted copy of the EIC here, we can take a look at it for you

Here's a sample

 

[littlespark]

The only things that stand out on the test sheet are;

Smoke detectors should also be listed at the top as equipment that can be damaged through insulation resistance test.
Max Zs should be listed on every circuit, not just rfc
22 points on a lighting circuit. Counted every single bulb by the looks of it.
Likewise, 18 points on kitchen ring. Must be a big kitchen… I think I’ve only got 8
Two large loads (cooker and oven) next to each other in the board. Thinking heat disapation.
No mention of SPD

Some of the items shown earlier above can be picked up as snagging faults, but it’s the basics such as bonding, appropriate sized mcbs and cables, general workmanship that are indicators of bodgery

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The only things that stand out on the test sheet are;

Smoke detectors should also be listed at the top as equipment that can be damaged through insulation resistance test.
Max Zs should be listed on every circuit, not just rfc
22 points on a lighting circuit. Counted every single bulb by the looks of it.
Likewise, 18 points on kitchen ring. Must be a big kitchen… I think I’ve only got 8
Two large loads (cooker and oven) next to each other in the board. Thinking heat disapation.
No mention of SPD

Some of the items shown earlier above can be picked up as snagging faults, but it’s the basics such as bonding, appropriate sized mcbs and cables, general workmanship that are indicators of bodgery

Looks like he didn't fill in max permitted Zs, and has then put the ring final details in the wrong columns.

I'm actually considering deleting the max permitted zs column from my paperwork, a pointless waste of time IMO, restating what BS7671 says. Number of points served, and type of wiring has already been shown the door.

There's nothing in the paperwork that concerns me, the values all look about right.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Certs are over-complicated imo , a commissioning cert really only needs the actual test results and thats it imo

You can then do a basic fuse board chart with wiring type , fuse type and points served etc

I have always found certs overly fussy and way too over the top

 

[brianmoooore]

1 x C2 and 1 x C1 discovered in the new build my son bought last year (so far).

 

[Midwest]

As @snowhead said, your complaint is with the developer, not the electrical contractor, unless you employed then directly. NHBC will refer you back to the Developer, to correct faults. Have you raised this on your snagging list?

 

[UNG]

I'm actually considering deleting the max permitted zs column from my paperwork, a pointless waste of time IMO, restating what BS7671 says. Number of points served, and type of wiring has already been shown the door.

Given that the max permitted zs column is on the model forms in BS7671complete with a footnote as is the type of wiring why would you delete it, if you take that column out why not take out the maximum disconnection time
You appear to be just making it difficult for someone to review your EICR's IMO while issuing documentation not compliant with BS7671

 

[westward10]

Certification does not have to follow the suggested format in BS7671, Appendix 6 is informative only.

 

[nicebutdim]

You all know my views on new-builds, but sadly this is what to expect these days from many mainstream builders. The problem lies in builders asking electricians (maybe) to first and second fix new builds for a totally unrealistically low price.

Builders are offering rates that these sparks are prepared to accept. The blame lies with the guy who accepts a job they know can not be completed to a satisfactory standard for the agreed price. No spark is forced to accept any job at any rate and, given the recent boom, I can not understand why they would put themselves in such a position - the only conclusion I can arrive at is that they don't care about working to acceptable standards.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Given that the max permitted zs column is on the model forms in BS7671complete with a footnote as is the type of wiring why would you delete it, if you take that column out why not take out the maximum disconnection time
You appear to be just making it difficult for someone to review your EICR's IMO while issuing documentation not compliant with BS7671

I hear what you're saying @UNG , however, these are my arguments against:

Type of wiring hasn't been in the regs for many years, until this latest amendment. Same with number of points served. I have never found myself wishing I had info for either on a cert, the former being obvious to anyone, and the latter is open to interpretation. If you take the definition of 'point' from bs7671, then things such as regular light switches aren't counted.

Max Zs is AFAIK totally dependent on the protective device, and the disconnection time. With these items of data already on the form, there can only be one answer, that taken from BS7671, anyone reviewing the form should IMO check against this, not blindly accept something written by the inspector. I take your point about the footnote, but in 5 years I have never had reason to even consider it.

The above help no one IMO. Including it doesn't help make safe installations, it just wastes my time and diverts my attention from the job in hand.