No Earth available at the cut out?

[craig1000]

Hi need to clarify as quickly as possible a situation?
No clear main earth terminal at the incoming suppy?
small bit of stranded remains off the cable sheath but nut soething to connect to.
Definatly no earth rod!
I want to split the incoming supply after the meter via 100amp link blocks to provide a sub board to use for new circuits to be rcd protected feeding the kitchen & bathroom.
Customer doesnt want a full board change for fear of old wiring not holding in on a rcd.
No where to connect by earth from my new CU.
Can get a good Ze of 0.11 off the existing wylex rewirable CU but i am positive this is reading through the gas & water bonds & possibly even the cpc's in the outgoing circuits somehow.
Customer doesnt want me investigating & the cost involved of additional works the old wiring.
The DNO are not interested but should push them harder to come out & provide a MET?
Should they charge for this?
Should i put a rod in, trouble being in a built up street so where would be a problem.
Supply is a T-N-S fed via old lead paper underground cable.

Advice needed ASAP?

Thanks in advance!

 

[richy3333]

Des 56. I appreciate what you say and don't necessary disagree. But the average Joe-public won't look at the certifcate. It will get filed with 'all the other house stuff' and at least a letter posted/emailed will draw their attention to the issue. Mention it on the cert and by letter - belt and braces job, and your teflon coated with no come back

 

[Guitarist]

I think the OP is doing this for peace of mind Des. I can understand that.

 

[craig1000]

OK, it sounds as though you haven't touched his existing board and earthing? Just fitted your new board, circuits and the rod covers only your install? That being the case just make sure it is abundantly clear in you arse covering letter that his existing supply has a bad/ non existent earth. Get paid and walk away, the customer clearly doesn't care about his earth until it all goes -----up!

Correct so this is what i shall do & learn heavily from the experience! thank you for your advice throughout ;-)

 

[craig1000]

The "whole" of a TT system must be covered by at least a 100mA RCD, but there are several other circuit types which must have 30mA RCD protection, which is why it is easier and more cost-effective to use 30mA for the whole install. Look in your OSG for the list.
From what you are saying, the original is relying on the extraneous pipework, with the new on an electrode?

Correct but but as the only bit covered by the TT system i have installed is my new works then i am covered i guess, all of what i have done which is the only stuff on the new TT system i have installed is covered by a 30 milliamp RCD.

 

[craig1000]

Initially assessing the installation more thoroughly may have helped ,but thats a business decision not a safety decision,you will find your own degree of initial inspection required,nobody can tell you how much or little that should be



Writing a letter would be a fine thing to do,but personally I wouldn't give him or it the time of day
You will no doubt be issuing certification,there is a box in the certificate for comments on the existing installation
All of your comments can be highlighted on that certificate and a copy retained for future reference,why would a covering letter be any more effective


Many seem to believe that when we work in a property,we automatically assume responsibility for the whole of that installation and what a load of garbage that is

My advise If you have done your work adequately,the customer and the supplier dont seem too bothered about the existing, get on to the next job and don't take other peoples problems home with you

Thank you Des, this does help as i have heard conflicting info on this before so as you say i don't take any responsibility for the existing, what i have done is up to standard & regs so i shall highlight the probs with his existing on the form & shall then invoice & walk away. Unhappy but safe in the knowledge i have done all i can in terms of what the customer would allow.

 

[craig1000]

I think the OP is doing this for peace of mind Des. I can understand that.

You are correct, although i accept i could have avoided some of this & its partially my fault, i hope what has come across is that i am not just a cowboy have a go idiot who doesn't care! There is stuff i don't know & am trying to learn but i shall & in the meantime i shall do all i can to get things right even at my cost if i **** up. I was taught that you are always learning no matter how much experience you have & in my opinion if you think you know it all then there is a problem & you could come unstuck.

 

[craig1000]

Des 56. I appreciate what you say and don't necessary disagree. But the average Joe-public won't look at the certifcate. It will get filed with 'all the other house stuff' and at least a letter posted/emailed will draw their attention to the issue. Mention it on the cert and by letter - belt and braces job, and your teflon coated with no come back [/QUOTE

Correct so i shall do both to give myself as much cover as poss. ;-)

 

[Knobhead]

Send the letter "recorded", OK it costs a bit more. You have proof of delivery.

 

[hillbillie]

Send the letter "recorded", OK it costs a bit more. You have proof of delivery.

e-mail it and don't delete it from your sent folder.

 

[Knobhead]

e-mail it and don't delete it from your sent folder.

Caries no weight in law!
A recorded letter does as it’s signed for.

 

[Guitarist]

And always put a "read" tracker on all e-mails. I sent a music scholarship recommendation in to a college for one of my students a while back, and after a few weeks the parent was a bit upset that the college claimed I hadn't sent it. I forwarded the e-mail AND the "read" receipt to the parent. Seems I had sent it after all......

 

[Steve_P]

Western Power are usually quite easy to talk to, although they would always rather you put a rod in as they hate having to look after their kit. 3 transformers round here have developed faults over the last month but getting the central phone service to actually realise that there is a problem is not easy. It's a lot easier to get through to one of the engineers direct so try and get their mobile numbers and e-mail addresses when you get the chance.

I know what you mean about tight customers too, there's a few that I have walked away from because the customer wanted a few additions in the house but refused to listen to anything about the 3036 board in the passage up the side of the house needing to be at least in an enclosure let alone swapped out for something with RCD protection. Earth rods and cable notconnected but they don't want to go to the expense of having it fixed. But the bottled gas has a gas safe cert!

 

[hillbillie]

Caries no weight in law!
A recorded letter does as it’s signed for.

Really? E-mails don't count in court?

Almost all of the certificates I give clients are in pdf form, e-mailed to them.