No earth in lighting circuit what next?

[Elliott96]

Im sure this has probably been asked before in this forum but ive just upgraded a fuseboard today and found no earth in the lighting (two core). Obviously the next thing to do would be to tell the customer either rewire or change everything on that circuit to class 2 fittings and accessories, but in this case the customer didnt want to go ahead with either.... what should i do? Cutting the circuit out would be abit extreme?

 

[45140]

Yes, I was just remarking that it is a shame we do not have something similar in the UK.

Saw a bodge up yesterday.

Lady wanted an inspection doing for the Housing Association use. Her husband (an HVAC Engineer) had replaced some light fittings and associated switches in the living room and she needed someone to confirm that the work was OK.

On arrival, the sockets were also off the wall, and the job had changed from lights to lights plus sockets. On inspection he had used a four core cable and used the third grey-sheathed conductor as the CPC and cut the CPC back. A few questions elicited the fact that he had broken the wall, installed a 45 amp junction box and from this he had run this new cct into the living room. Wall made good and newly wall-papered. And all of this from someone who allegedly designed HVAC control systems !

The response to various enquiries left me to believe that other work may have been done. Needless to say I told them to call the HA first thing on Monday and get them to come in a done a proper inspection as I suspected there was more to this. Incidentally the GF sockets showing 25 volts on two separate meters when disconnected.

The wife was literally trembling with anger.

A legal restriction on non-registered person working on electrical installations would be something we really should push for.

 

[Midwest]

Éire, I mean Errgh?

 

[Octopus]

For the benefit of some of the contributors to this thread

There is nothing "legal" or "illegal" about BS 7671 except reproduction of the regs without the permission of the IET

We sparks have no authority to leave existing circuits disconnected from an installation.

We have no obligation to force a customer to make improvements, we do have an obligation to confirm non compliance and observations on the certificate we issue.

For scheme members I suggest you seek written guidance from them tomorrow.

 

[sparksburnout]

Yes, I was just remarking that it is a shame we do not have something similar in the UK.

Saw a bodge up yesterday.

Lady wanted an inspection doing for the Housing Association use. Her husband (an HVAC Engineer) had replaced some light fittings and associated switches in the living room and she needed someone to confirm that the work was OK.

On arrival, the sockets were also off the wall, and the job had changed from lights to lights plus sockets. On inspection he had used a four core cable and used the third grey-sheathed conductor as the CPC and cut the CPC back. A few questions elicited the fact that he had broken the wall, installed a 45 amp junction box and from this he had run this new cct into the living room. Wall made good and newly wall-papered. And all of this from someone who allegedly designed HVAC control systems !

The response to various enquiries left me to believe that other work may have been done. Needless to say I told them to call the HA first thing on Monday and get them to come in a done a proper inspection as I suspected there was more to this. Incidentally the GF sockets showing 25 volts on two separate meters when disconnected.

The wife was literally trembling with anger.

A legal restriction on non-registered person working on electrical installations would be something we really should push for.

Yeah cos all the registered ones are totally safe and never do anything like this eh?

 

[Bait Account]

Ok Doc so you'd reconnect and leave exposed live parts energised. Good on ya bud.

 

[sparksburnout]

For the benefit of some of the contributors to this thread

There is nothing "legal" or "illegal" about BS 7671 except reproduction of the regs without the permission of the IET

We sparks have no authority to leave existing circuits disconnected from an installation.

We have no obligation to force a customer to make improvements, we do have an obligation to confirm non compliance and observations on the certificate we issue.

For scheme members I suggest you seek written guidance from them tomorrow.

This idea of walking off and "cutting out" a circuit that has probably been in service for 30 years is quite ridiculous, just because a CU has been replaced. I really do wonder what world some folks on here live in, to be honest. If they worked for themselves they would starve to death.

 

[Shoei]

Interesting that this is so controversial, personal view is that the guidance @snowhead linked in the 4th post hit's the nail. To paraphrase..

'If the customer doesn't cooperate and you confirm by testing that the circuit isn't outright lethal then you can give advice and move on, if it is outright lethal you can't leave it energized.'

I can't see much wrong with that. The guidance isn't law in the same way the Highway Code isn't law, ignore it if you like, but if you do there may be consequences.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Ok Doc so you'd reconnect and leave exposed live parts energised. Good on ya bud.

See this is a good point. You go to a property and theres t and e clipped down a wall and there is bare copper showing...client doesnt want any work done to such cable....do you just walk away??

 

[Octopus]

See this is a good point. You go to a property and theres t and e clipped down a wall and there is bare copper showing...client doesnt want any work done to such cable....do you just walk away??

A VERY different topic that this thread is about....

 

[peterhyper]

See this is a good point. You go to a property and theres t and e clipped down a wall and there is bare copper showing...client doesnt want any work done to such cable....do you just walk away??

What would you do in that situation?

 

[sparksburnout]

See this is a good point. You go to a property and theres t and e clipped down a wall and there is bare copper showing...client doesnt want any work done to such cable....do you just walk away??

If the client wants to keep a mental pit bull that might rip your throat out that's up to him as well. We are not the police.

 

[peterhyper]

If the client wants to keep a mental pit bull that might rip your throat out that's up to him as well. We are not the police.

Or the client might be more mental than a deranged pit bill and already had the hump that his wife agreed to having you in to replace the C/U when it worked fine before you turned up, so you are already taking liberties with his misses, and if you disconnect that circuit with a bare conductor that feeds the tv he watches Millwall on, he will kick off.

 

[sparksburnout]

Or the client might be more mental than a deranged pit bill and already had the hump that his wife agreed to having you in to replace the C/U when it worked fine before you turned up, so you are already taking liberties with his misses, and if you disconnect that circuit with a bare conductor that feeds the tv he watches Millwall on, he will kick off.

If he is a Milwall fan, I wouldn't even stop outside his gaff

 

[magnoliafan89]

What would you do in that situation?

......lick it....

The clients wife.....not the cable

 

[Silly Sausage]

......lick it....

The clients wife.....not the cable

You've obviously never worked in Scunthorpe