No wonder main fuses are pulled!

[Amp David]

The legislation is EAWR89, and ESQCR.
You are not legally allowed to work on the national grid, the cut out is part of the national grid.
The problem is because all you idiots do this regularly the DNO does not think that there is a requirement for them to resolve a problem that does not exist.
You are not allowed to work live unless it can be avoided, correct.
When pulling a DNO fuse you are working live on the national grid you are not allowed to do this unless you have written permission from the DNO.
Just don't do it, get the DNO out then once they are getting hundreds of calls a day perhaps they will do something about their kit and their appalling procedures.

Idiots eh? bit harsh!

Dont think a thousand calls a day to the dno would make them change the way they work.

 

[paturback]

get the DNO out then once they are getting hundreds of calls a day perhaps they will do something about their kit....

They would probably just set up a premium line number and fleece us all the more

 

[mogga]

the reasons for the legality are down to "tampering" cutting a seal is more than tampering its breaking someone elses property also everyone keeps going on about WORKING LIVE FFS do you issolate the cablehead fuse before you cut seal and pull fuse NO as you cant ect ectect
Cutting seals and pulling fuse is DANGEROUS and there lies the problem will everyone stop when some members wife comes on here and gives an account of how her electrician husband got a bad shock and is in hospital due to him "just pulling a fuse"???

 

[telectrix]

The legislation is EAWR89, and ESQCR.
You are not legally allowed to work on the national grid, the cut out is part of the national grid.
The problem is because all you idiots do this regularly the DNO does not think that there is a requirement for them to resolve a problem that does not exist.
You are not allowed to work live unless it can be avoided, correct.
When pulling a DNO fuse you are working live on the national grid you are not allowed to do this unless you have written permission from the DNO.
Just don't do it, get the DNO out then once they are getting hundreds of calls a day perhaps they will do something about their kit and their appalling procedures.

rthey'll never get hundreds of calls a day because all their " advisors " are busty, your call will be answered as soon as possible. after 30 minutes of holding callers hang up.

 

[sparkinlee]

Cutting seals and pulling fuse is DANGEROUS...

I'm not questioning the truth of this statement - just trying to understand why...

I've read this and other threads with many varied comments about pulling the main fuse, and the dangers that arcing when you this can cause. My question is - why does this cause arcing?

In my (possibly limited) understanding, arcing occurs when you break a current, because the current which was flowing from one conductor to the other while they were in contact temporarily bridges the gap as the conductors are separated. If this is the case, if there is no current flowing when the contacts are separated (when the fuse is pulled, in this case) why would there be an arc? So if this is correct, doesn't turning off the main switch on the consumer unit, to ensure no current is flowing through the fuse, remove the risk of arcing when you pull the fuse?

I'm sure others with more experience than me will be able to explain why this happens - please do, as I'm curious to know.

Thanks

 

[rsmck]

There was certainly a bit of a spark when the DNO (not me) removed a fuse that supplied my neighbours property as well as mine. My consumer unit was isolated however, to minimise disruption I suppose, he did not have the neighbours do the same. There was a slight arc when reconnecting my supply fuse (I guess the meter will draw enough maybe?) and a far more noticeable one when they reconnected the neighbours ...

Again I'm not an expert but I'd say that if the consumer unit is off then any arcing will be considerably reduced. Still wouldn't want to pull one out of the old supply head I had .. the new one would bother me less if there was ever a reason i absolutely had to but thanks to isolators I never should

 

[sparkinlee]

There was a slight arc when reconnecting my supply fuse (I guess the meter will draw enough maybe?)...

Thanks rsmck. Does anyone know...

1. Does the internal working of the meter draw current (to make an arc as described)?

2. Is it correct that an arc will only occur when breaking a current (see my post #20 on this thread)?

Thanks

 

[SW1970]

1. The electromechanical meters (rotating disc) draw about 2W. The modern smart meters draw about 17W (but this would be top end; some have GSM SIMs in for remote transmission).

2. Yes, however, this is not only the case when the CU is isolated; if there was a fault up stream there could be energy appearing at the cutout (although this would be rare and unfortunate timing). I watched a South Eastern Power Networks guy dress up in full arc protection gear to pull the fuse on a property once. The CU was isolated, but their health and safety rules require this in case there's an upstream fault.

An arc is technically any transmission of electric energy between 2 unconnected conductors. e.g., 2 wires connected to a 9V battery and "sparking" them together - the spark is an arc.

The extend to which an arc is dangerous depends on the levels of energy present, other materials that may become molten and spray off the conductor, the distance of the observer from the arc and many other factors etc etc. In the case of domestic electrics, any arc should be considered dangerous.

 

[metering]

Breaking the seal is criminal damage. Breaking the seals can be used as evidence of tampering - theft. Electricity suppliers may simply disconnect the electricity supply - leaving the customer without an electricity supply, they will not be happy with their electrician!

The correct route is described on the DCUSA de-energisation document. Practically support the suggestion earlier of fit a DP Isolator then meter operator will connect it up, you can then go on to change consumer unit, etc.

 

[spraymate1]

Last week, had to do a cu change, advised the client to ring DNO to fit isolator, they asked me to do it on their behalf, as they were unsure on what to ask for. Found out they were on with british gas, rang them on friday, came out on monday, fitted isolator and I asked them to move the meter aswell, all done in about 20min, the guy even asked me if I wanted any 25mm tails, now can do cu you change all nice and safe, without breaking the law, sorted.

 

[metering]

Meter take much less power than stated. Electronic meters use less than electromechanical. Smart meter communications will use energy, but it peaks only then actually transmitting which may be a few seconds a day.

 

[SW1970]

Yes, hence the "but this would be top end" comment. But at these levels the propensity to arc due to meter draw is very low. It's all about up stream faults.

 

[sparky3366]

rthey'll never get hundreds of calls a day because all their " advisors " are busty, your call will be answered as soon as possible. after 30 minutes of holding callers hang up.

that must be one of those new fangled video phones then,,,

 

[brucelee]

yes same here rang BG on friday other week and following monday fitted 100A dp ,digi meter, tails , and upgraded the fuse from 60A to 80A as he had one in van 30 mins all done and dusted good guy and for the sum of £39 bargain

He said as far as smart meters they are all being replaced again as the first lot are already obsolete so all these are also getting done and going to get replaced his firm is being took over by BG
Unitied utilities also did same for me on brothers house
easier to just get it done for £39

 

[Des 56]

Breaking the seal is criminal damage. Breaking the seals can be used as evidence of tampering - theft. Electricity suppliers may simply disconnect the electricity supply - leaving the customer without an electricity supply, they will not be happy with their electrician!

The correct route is described on the DCUSA de-energisation document. Practically support the suggestion earlier of fit a DP Isolator then meter operator will connect it up, you can then go on to change consumer unit, etc.

Ever had a conversation with someone who somehow functions with their left hand being completely oblivious to what their right hand are doing

When there was a single area electricity board/company to deal with,communication with them, for people involved with installation work was relatively straight forward
Times change with the fragmentation of the supply industry into all these "eager to profit at any expense" supply companies,they sometimes forget that other people have to operate under a structure that is neither straightforward or comprehensible
They dont know their left hand from their right,yet expect the rest of the world to revolve around their pathetic organisation and structures

There may very well have been occasions when the procedure worked satisfactory,it was probably a fairly unique event though
Most peoples dealings with these supply and metering companies are in fact horrendous,being shunted from one ignorant department and company to another
To actually talk to the right people is, in most peoples minds, an achievement in itself,to manage to arrange any suitable arrangement with them is nigh on an impossibility, and even then its done on a "profit to them" basis,common sense and user/ installer safety plays no part

The set procedure does not work,because the fragmentation of the supply chain has become so complicated,they dont know what and who they are dealing with themselves,so outsiders wishing to make arrangements with them have 2 chances,little and none at all

If they were concerned about safety,they would install isolators between the customers equipment and theirs,so that there would never be an issue with following the EWR on working live,the consequences being the electricians rightly isolate the installation

The problem with this issue lies with the the supply companies,the repurcussions of the issue are the installing electricians

To come on here and parrot the official procedure, is to once again dismiss this huge problem,hiding any sensible change behind the face of health and safety and dis regarding economic reality

People need to earn a living and going through the ever changing hoops with those companies is like trying to find your way through an impossible maze

To these companies I would say
Fit "your own" isolator between your "own equipment" and the customer, and there would be no issue with electricians isolating installations to work on the customers equipment

That is the straightforward and simple solution,the problem with simplicity is it doesn't help to increase the profit margin of these companies, who have the audacity to then preach the rules as if the electrician were some kind of criminal,the only criminal act is that we have these companies carrying on year after year without being compelled to introduce simplicity