Non-Harmonized cable in Enclosure

[dellboy13]

Hi All

I am currently designing a complete home automation system based around CBUS dimmers and relays. I have now built the enclosures with the dimmers and relays in so I can start programming / testing them. I have going to get a full spark to install the actual cables and connect the lights.
All the CBUS units need breakers feeding them and fuses on their outputs, which I have wired using red and black 1.5mm cables to DIN rail terminators & MCB in the cabinet which are obviously not Harmonized. Is this OK, the spark (when I find one) will do everything external with Harmonized cable!

 

[spark 68]

It has a lot to do with the regulations governing panel building, along with the type of cable, IP rating etc etc. Some of these regulations are law, although I don't personally know enough about them to advise on here about it.
.

The IP ratings are almost (if not exactly) the same as BS7671, namely suitable for the intended environment, minimum IP 4X for the top surface and IP2X for the rest or higher depending on environment.

The colours can be anything except Green, and G/Y this latter only used for CPCs, so long as they are identifiable alpha-numerically.

Inside of the panel is governed by other standards than BS7671, this is also outside the scope of the Nic

 

[Marvo]

I wasn't referring to anything you said Dave, the OP asked if he should rewire it for trunking.

 

[dellboy13]

Thank you all for the advice, I will un-clip the neutrals and lives and keep it tidy with in slotted trunking.

Regarding the fused din rail terminators, do you think a lock on the front door would be adequate or should I push the fuse holders back and cover the slot? When you open the fuse holder, you can see exposed metal which would be live but it is right at the back of the holder, you could not touch it with your finger, only with a screwdriver. The actual ones I used are:-

 

[spark 68]

Thank you all for the advice, I will un-clip the neutrals and lives and keep it tidy with in slotted trunking.

Regarding the fused din rail terminators, do you think a lock on the front door would be adequate or should I push the fuse holders back and cover the slot? When you open the fuse holder, you can see exposed metal which would be live but it is right at the back of the holder, you could not touch it with your finger, only with a screwdriver. The actual ones I used are:-

If the front cover is lockable, or requires a tool to open, you should be fine, I would perhaps have a warning --- Volts label too, although not required in BS7671,most panels I have built do have this label.

 

[dellboy13]

Sorry I missed the posting from Marvo before posting my last one.

Anybody disagree with the lock idea? I personally think a lock is more secure that the 4 bolts that hold the front on but I know what governing bodies are like!!!

All the gear is either UK Hager or Schneider Electric and purchased from UK wholesalers, so fully UK CE approved. The cabinets are IP40 and installed in a small plant rooms

 

[dellboy13]

Thank you spark 68

 

[dellboy13]

Out of interest, has anybody on here had any experience with CBUS home automation? Any tips?

 

[davesparks]

Sorry I missed the posting from Marvo before posting my last one.

Anybody disagree with the lock idea? I personally think a lock is more secure that the 4 bolts that hold the front on but I know what governing bodies are like!!!

All the gear is either UK Hager or Schneider Electric and purchased from UK wholesalers, so fully UK CE approved. The cabinets are IP40 and installed in a small plant rooms

The individual components being CE marked doesn't automatically make the completed unit CE marked!

 

[dellboy13]

God this is getting complicated!

The problem is that I have spoken to 3 local residential sparks, I spent over an hour trying to explain to the guy how a CBUS system work (control via a bus system, sending control signals to central distribution), he just did not get it, so he was off the list. The second said it was too complicated for him, he basically works on 17th edition 14 way boards and nothing else and the 3rd guy was an Aussie who was a nice chap but I did not believe he was a qualified spark and the pictures of his work was nothing to be proud of. Hopefully Welchyboy1 will still be up for a chat in 5 months time!

The problem is the system is residential but not a standard single board setup, more commercial but the commercial sparks would not touch a residential install (saying that I only tried one local company)

 

[Marvo]

The individual components being CE marked doesn't automatically make the completed unit CE marked!

We'd only expect CE certification of the complete assembly if it was sold as a mass produced pre-assembled control panel. If we built a panel specifically for a job such as lighting control for a particular premises it would normally require type test certification.

 

[davesparks]

It's not too different from a stage lighting installation, a box full of dimmers controlled from a remote location via some form of data signal.

In response to something you mentioned above, why do you want the electrician to run 1.5 T&E for the outgoings?

 

[davesparks]

We'd only expect CE certification of the complete assembly if it was sold as a mass produced pre-assembled control panel. If we built a panel specifically for a job such as lighting control for a particular premises it would normally require type test certification.

Fair enough, as I said I don't know enough about the rules. But do know that any custom made distribution or control unit we buy in comes CE marked with a unique serial number.

 

[spark 68]

I was about to say similar to Marvo^^

Dave sparks also alluded to this too, I would be more concerned fitting a panel that was not type tested/approved.

 

[Marvo]

.....The problem is that I have spoken to 3 local residential sparks

You're speaking to the wrong people. I'm not saying there aren't any residential sparks that can't install and commission such a control panel but they'll certainly be few and far between. I'm not sure if Welchyboy has CBUS experience though, if he doesn't fancy the work I'd speak to someone like Rob or Robotstar5 if I were you although I'm not sure if they're anywhere near you.

 

[davesparks]

God this is getting complicated!

The problem is that I have spoken to 3 local residential sparks, I spent over an hour trying to explain to the guy how a CBUS system work (control via a bus system, sending control signals to central distribution), he just did not get it, so he was off the list. The second said it was too complicated for him, he basically works on 17th edition 14 way boards and nothing else and the 3rd guy was an Aussie who was a nice chap but I did not believe he was a qualified spark and the pictures of his work was nothing to be proud of. Hopefully Welchyboy1 will still be up for a chat in 5 months time!

The problem is the system is residential but not a standard single board setup, more commercial but the commercial sparks would not touch a residential install (saying that I only tried one local company)

I'll do it, if the price is right and the equipment is compliant.