notifiable commercial work

[Phillcbr400]

Have been searching the net but can't find much info. What works are notifiable when working on a commercial premises?

 

[KAS1]

So Frank what are you I mean have you been graded????? let me guess IT Technician aged 21 lol

 

[Marvo]

I agree with what you're saying Frank, we deal with chiller plant control engineers who design and also will install LV (230 & 400v) equipment as well as ELV. They're not electricians but they're more than competent to perform this work and probably more so than a qualified electrician who would have no knowledge of the components and controls being installed.


In the good/bad old days the refrigeration industry was split into the gas and pipework side and the electrical/controls side. Guys would do a different apprenticeship depending which area they wanted to eventually work in but that all but fell away 20-30 years ago.

 

[Des 56]

The reply did not tie up very well with the words you used (below) in your opening address Frank

electrocuting someone by doing dodgy work should be left

However, I will accept your statement regarding the regs being a guide
Be aware also, it is not unknown for us sparks to be well aware of that fact :smile5:




Frank is in a Boomtown Rats mood "Tonight, of all nights, there's gonna be a fight":90:

 

[FrankUK]

So Frank what are you I mean have you been graded????? let me guess IT Technician aged 21 lol

'fraid not KAS
Fridge engineer with 45 years working life experience

 

[FrankUK]

I agree with what you're saying Frank, we deal with chiller plant control engineers who design and also will install LV (230 & 400v) equipment as well as ELV. They're not electricians but they're more than competent to perform this work and probably more so than a qualified electrician who would have no knowledge of the components and controls being installed.


In the good/bad old days the refrigeration industry was split into the gas and pipework side and the electrical/controls side. Guys would do a different apprenticeship depending which area they wanted to eventually work in but that all but fell away 20-30 years ago.

Thanks for the recognition Marvo.

I'm just trying to point out that the 'feeling' I get on here is that there is an overall 'beratement' factor in most of the post I read.

As with all forums, there is an element of the untrained seeking advice, as well as the professionals exchanging experiences. However, what I also see is the less experienced or learners being hung drawn and quartered as their skills are not up to scratch. And everything is judged against a 'Guide'

Do I need to visit Specsavers? or am I way off the mark?

 

[markc123]

I'm not an electrician but I am fairly qualified and my trade encompasses a large part of electrical work, so I am familiar with both single phase and 3 phase circuits, but I'm always surprised how you guys on this forum always lean towards the BS7671 as if it was a Bible. It is not. It is not law...it is a guide.

The law does not allow a defense against poor workmanship if someone gets electrocuted and dies. If you can prove that you installed to the 'Guide' then that may be a defense, but as far as I know, this has never been tested in Court.

If an installation is not compliant with BS7671 in all respects but no one gets electrocuted, are you breaking the law? I don't think so.

Dis-respecting a member because you think he is not fully qualified or Part P registered and is 'in your opinion' installing sub-standard work is wrong. Lots of installations fail to meet current 'Guidelines' i.e. 17th Edition, but also fail to electrocute people. Example such as a house built in the 70's and never rewired.

Until the 'Guide' becomes 'Law' (excepted where it is encompassed into building contracts) it is just that....a Guide. Any installer willing to take the risk of taking on the responsibility of electrocuting someone by doing dodgy work should be left to risk the might of the law.

We should not condemn someone because we think their work is sub standard against the latest edition of the 'Guide', we should consider if their work is acceptable against the chance of someone being electrocuted or the possibility of fire etc due to undersized cables et al.

I changed the CU in my home a couple of years back before I was Part P registered and did not inform the local BI, Nobody has died so far, but now that I have a piece of paper to prove I can safely do it, does that make it a safer installation?

I think that a broader view of the regs is over due. In my opinion, safety is now being over-ruled by the need to increase income. Updates to the Guide are being delivered far to often for my liking.

Consider that a new installation a few years back that complied with the then current 16th Edition..would you now consider that it is sub standard as it does nor measure up the the 17th Edition (with amendments) - and is it any less safe?

" I'll try to respond to the incoming flak, as time allows"

Not quite sure where you've got this all from...

As for the first point underlined...No, if it was installed prior to 2008 - but if you're installing anything after 2008 then it has to be to 17th edition. It is the current standard, and if no one gets electrocuted then you're just lucky. If someone does get hurt and you've not installed it to 17th then you're F'd.

Guilty until proven innocent when it comes to electrics in court.

As for the points i've highlighted in bold...which you are obviouslly correct, im just intrigued to which electricians actually hold a different view? It is very well known that you can't always fail something that doesn't comply with 17th aslong as it was installed prior to 2008. You can only fail something, if its unsafe.

 

[Phillcbr400]

This has started a proper debate
It was only asked as my career has been industrial and commercial based but as I work for a government funded organisation as such it is kind of regulated by ourselves regarding notification of works.

 

[markc123]

Debate can be healthy at times on this forum, or it can be deadly lol.

 

[stuartcourt]

Its good to talk or argue anyway

 

[Brightspark2]

Fridge engineer

A pretend one?...or have you actually got engineering qualifications?...

Anyway rather than a guide its a British standard to which we are trained to follow and comply with. If people come on this electricans forum and are found out not to be working to these standards then of course they will be shot down. It is an electricians bible.

 

[trev]

"Engineer".... That used to be a term that commanded respect because if someone had that title you knew for a fact they knew their stuff and had the quals and experience to deserve it. Now it appears that the title is handed out like sweets at a children's birthday party. Only today we've seen a guy asking about how a 1 way switch is wired yet he claims to be an engineer at the age of 18, granted his engineering experience was in alarms but come on, how can you be an engineer at 18 and not be able to figure out a simple on/off arrangement? 15 years till I retire and I'm ticking off the days because this stuff makes me want to cry

 

[Jay Sparks]

A pretend one?...or have you actually got engineering qualifications?...

Anyway rather than a guide its a British standard to which we are trained to follow and comply with. If people come on this electricans forum and are found out not to be working to these standards then of course they will be shot down. It is an electricians bible.[/QUOTE]

Its not the bible....there is only one bible and thats "The history of Man utd".lol. Yes its a guide for electricians to follow but even if you follow it to a tee and someone gets electrocuted....your still screwed!!! I was always taut at college that you cant ALWAYS satify the regs in the real world.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

A pretend one?...or have you actually got engineering qualifications?...

Anyway rather than a guide its a British standard to which we are trained to follow and comply with. If people come on this electricans forum and are found out not to be working to these standards then of course they will be shot down. It is an electricians bible.[/QUOTE]

Its not the bible....there is only one bible and thats "The history of Man utd".lol. Yes its a guide for electricians to follow but even if you follow it to a tee and someone gets electrocuted....your still screwed!!! I was always taut at college that you cant ALWAYS satify the regs in the real world.

eh?
not on my chuffin watch there isn`t.....:90:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

here....ave it:

View attachment untitled.bmp

 

[Jay Sparks]

here....ave it:

View attachment 18300

Or bless....My mate has a Leeds badge in his rear windscreen of his new golf......some little "gem" has SCRATCHED mufc on his bonnet...PMSL