Now I know who is making money from Green Deal....

[TedM]

Landlords can only use the GD if their tenant agrees too.

 

[sedgy34]

I'm thinking that unscrupulous landlords will install solar pv along with a few other measures, pay a smaller contribution to pv than they would otherwise have to and allow the tenant to pay the rest through the meter.

Thats never going to happen we r GDA and it would get flagged

 

[SRE]

Dead easy to get them to agree to it along with everything else - it's so confusing they won't understand what they are agreeing to. People don't like to look stupid and so will agree on the basis that overall, theoretically they will be saving. If I've spotted it you can be sure that by the end of Jan if/when the first agreements are in place something like this will be done. I'm usually the last one to think of ways round things!

I didn't say it was moral - just possible.

 

[Earthstore]

Hmmm, me feels some of you are being a little naive as to what some companies may do with the Green deal.

Picture the scene, shiny suit sat in Mr Smiths house,
OK Mr Smith, I can get your PV system part funded by the GD, I can also supply you with insulation, double glazing, oh and a boiler too, none of this will cost you a penny, and you will still get the FIT too.....
You see the Government have to do this because of some EU rule...

Sounds great doesn't it?
Most on here would never do such a thing, because we all know it would not be in the best interest for the customer, however, it will be wide open to abuse.

 

[sedgy34]

It's a lot more strict than you guys are led to believe

 

[Somecamel]

Gregs in the shop on Friday, Any questions

 

[SRE]

How much is a pasty???

 

[Gavin A]

Gregs in the shop on Friday, Any questions

when he leaves office at the next election, does he see his future being in the boardroom in the solar industry or the fossil fuel industry?

 

[sedgy34]

What time is he on again

 

[Eco Deal]

its not as stright forward as doing that but it is possible if the customer pays the excess to meet the golden rule.
I do understand that "sales men" will jump on this a destroy the industry as quick as possible.

But I dont see your point about offering all the recommended measures on the green deal plan If calculated right then the customer would be in pocket year on year.

Hmmm, me feels some of you are being a little naive as to what some companies may do with the Green deal.

Picture the scene, shiny suit sat in Mr Smiths house,
OK Mr Smith, I can get your PV system part funded by the GD, I can also supply you with insulation, double glazing, oh and a boiler too, none of this will cost you a penny, and you will still get the FIT too.....
You see the Government have to do this because of some EU rule...

Sounds great doesn't it?
Most on here would never do such a thing, because we all know it would not be in the best interest for the customer, however, it will be wide open to abuse.

 

[SRE]

and the landlord ... I'm one and it would stack up for me. Terraced house needs solid wall insulation and solar pv - 10k Green Deal, I pay the excess that GD doesn't cover and claim the Fit - laughing all the way to the bank cos I got solar pv at less than half price and my tenant is paying the rest at 8% interest.

 

[Earthstore]

I understand the golden rule, just trying to keep it simple, that's all.

Would it not be better to borrow the money @ say 3.5% and be able to choose from many suppliers rather than going down the GD route @say 7.5% and be tied to a few suppliers, which, due to there overheads/fees etc may not be as competitive?

Sorry, but I am not convinced about the GD, although some may benefit from it.

 

[Worcester]

Yep, however the landlord isn't paying the 8% the tenant is ...
The tenant is still better off than they were.
If the landlord raised the cash at 3.5% they have the liability and the financier would want some form of charge against the property.

The GD is a no-brainer for social housing, they get all their housing stock upgraded and the tenants pay for it. Of course the Golden rule means that their bills SHOULD be less and seeing as a number of them may be on some kind of income support, there may even be some ECO funding thrown in. (not sure about the ECO bit in the landlord / tenant situation)

 

[Gavin A]

I think you're right about how green deal will be pushed to landlords for solar.

 

[puddy]

slightly off topic but can the electric grid take all the power if 50-60% of house's feed in solar power ?

I thought it was one of the excuses the government used to cut the FiT

Or was it propaganda that I read from the Daily Mail?

 

[SolarCity]

Of course the Golden rule means that their bills SHOULD be less and seeing as a number of them may be on some kind of income support, there may even be some ECO funding thrown in. (not sure about the ECO bit in the landlord / tenant situation)

Surely their bills will remain the same?

 

[TedM]

Their bills will be more or less the same (inflation excepted) IF the GD measures deliver the predicted savings.

 

[Earthstore]

Their bills will be more or less the same (inflation excepted) IF the GD measures deliver the predicted savings.

So here is one of the flaws in the GD,
"predicted", it would be easy to over predict any savings on any energy saving measure, with PV we are all aware that some companies over predict the annual output.

I am quite sure if you need a little extra to meet the golden rule it would be easy, then if said company is still trading they can just blame the cold winter, or lack of sunshine etc.

There is the possibility of many tennents having energy saving measures to there homes only to find out after 12 months that it is costing them a lot more.

Just trying to highlight some of the flaws.

 

[Eco Deal]

The Saving will rise every year as fuel bills go up .

The Payment is fixed

so in year one the in pocket cash will be less than the final year as fuel bills rise.

 

[zeljuga]

Almost fairytale. Wolf in corral ,and all sheep's counted .

 

[finchy]

There is no way the cost would equal the savings made! Who has done this research, we all know from using SAP for pv... People will be worse off. With the only redemption being the cost of energy increasing to hopefully make the predictions viable.

My main issue pointed out over 12 months ago how do you value a house with the green deal. As the people buying a property with a GD loan attached will pay for it twice (through increase in sales price and then the existing loan).

 

[The Solar King]

I have heard that Greg Barker would like to see better integration of FITs with the Green Deal, but no information of how or the implications of this. It would be difficult to do anything until the current FIT arrangements come to an end. FIT2 is already being talked about.

Solar is now in the Renewables Road Map.

It should also be remembered there are internal tensions within DECC. It is not just about pet projects, but trying to make conflicting policies work. What you hear depends on who you talk to.

My advice would be get your head down and get on with it. Everything else is speculation and mental masturbation (it may make you feel good, but it doesn't produce anything).

 

[Worcester]

Solar is now in the Renewables Road Map.

By which them mean it appears on the list of destinations, but no route, plan, or targets. No annual estimate of target or deployment

Bit like saying I'll get married someday, sorry just looked in my diary, I've got 365 days (3 years out of 4) and not a single one is called 'Someday'

Actually it's worse than that, the roadmap is merely a sketch of the roads that already exist and where built last year...

 

[moggy1968]

this just has no basis in reality - solar has never been anything other than a minor potential add on to green deal, green deal has always been focused primarily on energy efficiency not renewable energy generation right from the first discussions about it all the way through to now.

There may be some last minute attempt to shoe horn solar in by allowing the FIT payments to be included within the golden rule, but if there is then this will be a complete change in position from DECC, and the only market it will impact is the rent a roof market, and I suspect that this would be where any pressure for this change would be coming from.

I said this on this forum over a year ago. The green deal is about insulation, it had, in it's original form, nothing to do with Solar. Solar has been strapped on because the big companies see it as a way of screwing even more money out of the customer.
The small companies will be squeezed out by this and it is clear that Government policy is being influenced by big companies (I wonder why!) trying to corner the market and remove competition.

 

[The Solar King]

Re Renewable energy Roadmap.
I have started a new Thread on this.

 

[Eco Deal]

We are all forgeting the other other measures that are FREE under eco funding.

[TABLE="width: 266"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 354, bgcolor: transparent"]Air Source heat Pumps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Biomass boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Biomass room heaters[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cavity Wall Insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cavity Wall Insulation (HTTP)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cylinder Therostates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]District heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Draught proofing[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water showers (effcient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water systems (efficient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water taps (efficient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]External wall insulation EWI[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Fan assisted replacement storage heaters[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Ground Source heat pumps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Heating controls[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Heating Ventilation & air conditioning controls[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]High performane external doors[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water controls [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water cylinder insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]internal wall insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Loft or rafter insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Micro combined heat and power[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Micro wind generation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Pipe work insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Gas fired condensing boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Replacment boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Oil fired condensing boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Warm air units[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Radiant heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Roof insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Room in roof insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Secondary glazing[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Solar water heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Under floor heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]under floor Insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Water source heat pumps

for

Low income and vulnerable households identified individually through benefits data (measures which reduce the cost of heating the home)

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Somecamel]

We are all forgeting the other other measures that are FREE under eco funding.

[TABLE="width: 266"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 354, bgcolor: transparent"]Air Source heat Pumps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Biomass boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Biomass room heaters[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cavity Wall Insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cavity Wall Insulation (HTTP)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Cylinder Therostates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]District heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Draught proofing[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water showers (effcient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water systems (efficient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water taps (efficient)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]External wall insulation EWI[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Fan assisted replacement storage heaters[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Ground Source heat pumps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Heating controls[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Heating Ventilation & air conditioning controls[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]High performane external doors[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water controls [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water cylinder insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]internal wall insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Loft or rafter insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Micro combined heat and power[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Micro wind generation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Pipe work insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Gas fired condensing boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Replacment boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Oil fired condensing boilers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Warm air units[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Radiant heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Roof insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Room in roof insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Secondary glazing[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Solar water heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Under floor heating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]under floor Insulation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Water source heat pumps

for

Low income and vulnerable households identified individually through benefits data (measures which reduce the cost of heating the home)

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So its replacing warmfront?

 

[puddy]

So its replacing Warmfront?

I hope not!

You have all read about my nightmare with Warmfront.


But I cannot claim it now because the tory party have cut funding for those on Disability Living Allowance apparently the banks and millionaires need it more than disabled


I have also heard they need it more you as well