Obsolete/ Older DBs

[atm84]

To avoid me from banging my head against a wall, Can anyone tell me where in the regs it might say, that where the original breakers (MCBs, MCCBs, switch fuses units) are no longer available for a DB or Switch Panel and replacements ones would have to be retrofitted in their place (eg say a bigger mccb is required and square D ones are no longer made and Schneider ones are the current replacement) then the whole panel would have to be upgraded. I am often told by my Senior that the DB or Switch Panel must be replaced in this situation. However my theory is that if the disconnection times of the replacement breakers comply and that its a suitable fit then its not an issue. Could it be something to do with the Form of Segregation in the older boards and Panels that do not meet the current regulations. If so, can some one point me to the Reg number.

 

[atm84]

I agree with that but why I am being instructed to specify a whole board replacement on numerous projects. It doesn't make sense, there does not appear to be a legitimate reason other than to cover ones a*^e.

 

[atm84]

If the existing board uses C50 mcb or 3871s then I understand that a new board is required but if the board uses 60898s then I can't see the issue.

 

[spark 68]

I agree with that but why I am being instructed to specify a whole board replacement on numerous projects. It doesn't make sense, there does not appear to be a legitimate reason other than to cover ones a*^e.

Just because the manufacture says you can (if they said that) does not mean you should , it could be down to contractual reasons, maybe the client wants to slowly update, maybe they don't want a mix of old and new ? just go with the flow, it is not coming out of your pocket, is it ?

 

[atm84]

I just want to be able to justify why things are done. Its got nothing to do with what the client wants or doesn't want. Why would they want to pay ££££ when they don't have to? What benefit is there of having a new board if the old one meets current regs.

 

[spark 68]

I just want to be able to justify why things are done. Its got nothing to do with what the client wants or doesn't want. Why would they want to pay ££££ when they don't have to? What benefit is there of having a new board if the old one meets current regs.

Well if nothing else the firm you are working for is getting paid, which in turn means you get paid

 

[telectrix]

might simply because the jones's down the street have one.

 

[snowhead]

Schneider bought Square D and Merlin in the early 90's along with other old famous names.

It's only in recent years they've put the Schneider name onto those products.

Type testing by Schneider isn't needed, they are developments of the same product with a different name.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If the existing board uses C50 mcb or 3871s then I understand that a new board is required but if the board uses 60898s then I can't see the issue.

Why when C50 and 3871 mcb's are still widely obtainable?

 

[atm84]

C50 generally do not meet the disconnection times and rcbo's are not available

 

[Deleted member 9648]

C50 generally do not meet the disconnection times and rcbo's are not available

C50 RCBO's are available. Where is the idea that C50 MCB's dont meet disconnection times coming from?

 

[atm84]

Again something I have been told from my Senior. Can you still get brand new C50's that are backed by Manufacturers warranty?

 

[Aurai]

Hello All

my reading of Part P leads to what I reckon is the answer!

We we do have to split our thinking between New Build and working on existing installations.

Just take any situation with any customer who has older kit i.e. any pre 17th Edition DB/CCU. There is no regulation to say a customer must upgrade to latest Wiring Regs guidance and new DB/CCU.

Part P indicates to me that we must leave our work in no less unsatisfactory state than when we started!

All we have to do, is do any new work to Wiring Regs/Part P and make sure we leave the installation no worse than we found it! So, we do not have to persuade our customers to take a new board or put sockets at 450mm and so on, in any upgrade.

What we cannot do is install old style DB/CCU even in new condition in a New Build.

There is still a marvellous business opportunity to explain the benefits of rewiring and new DB/CCU to current regs and Part P, if customer wants peace of mind for next 25 years as opposed to the previous 25 years!

cheers

 

[Anthony S]

What as part p got to do with all of this ?

 

[wiganspark]

Hello All

my reading of Part P leads to what I reckon is the answer!

We we do have to split our thinking between New Build and working on existing installations.

Just take any situation with any customer who has older kit i.e. any pre 17th Edition DB/CCU. There is no regulation to say a customer must upgrade to latest Wiring Regs guidance and new DB/CCU.

Part P indicates to me that we must leave our work in no less unsatisfactory state than when we started!

All we have to do, is do any new work to Wiring Regs/Part P and make sure we leave the installation no worse than we found it! So, we do not have to persuade our customers to take a new board or put sockets at 450mm and so on, in any upgrade.

What we cannot do is install old style DB/CCU even in new condition in a New Build.

There is still a marvellous business opportunity to explain the benefits of rewiring and new DB/CCU to current regs and Part P, if customer wants peace of mind for next 25 years as opposed to the previous 25 years!

cheers

what a load of rubbish! so your saying just because they have an old consumer unit you try and get them to have a rewire??

 

[Aurai]

Hello Again

Anthony S, I was trying to respond to the original post (OP) asking for a reference regulation that says we have to put in a new board. The Wiring Regulations, as amended do not seem to say anything on the subject.

Part P, however, does specifically refer to not making things more unsatisfactory but otherwise proceed (I said "less" in my post), so that, in my understanding, is the "reg" to work to.

Part P, is also specific on rewires and states that if existing wiring is adequate, there is no need to replace, even if prior colour codes.

Wiganspark, I was only saying there is an opportunity and you judge each case on its merits. Most of my work leaves existing wiring in place, but a new 17th Edition board is usually fitted as it neatly puts everything in good order over the two, three, four DB boxes that have been added over the lifetime of the home.

thank you