Options for electric heating?

[nicebutdim]

I know litte about the best means of heating a home using electricty so want to ask on behalf of a relative who has floated the idea of oil filled radiators on individual timers or new storage heaters.

House currently has storage heaters downstairs and nothing upstairs. Storage heaters are to be replaced for aesthetic reasons and I wonder what might be the best way to provide electric heating for a home with off-peak tariff, owned by someone who is out working all day Mon-Friday?

 

[pirate]

I have electric heating with off-peak. There are 2 storage rads on the off-peak, the others are wall mounted oil-filled rads with stats. I find the somewhat old storage rads to be ideal for my needs as they heat the hall and living room and still give out heat in the early evening. The oil-filled ones ,also of some age, just work as and when I need them. I did look at changing them all, but decided the cost was not justified. I replaced one oil filled with a modern one about 2 years ago, and it has more settings on it than I can be bothered with, but it does a good job. The Dimplex storage ones were the usual 2-tone brown and cream colour, but my daughter painted them black and they look much smarter now...and a lot cheaper than buying new ones! Maybe if the only reason for your relative changing the rads is aesthetic, a coat of paint might be the easiest way.
However, having looked at this scenario a few times my choice, were I to change my heating completely, would be to go for infrared panels which are easy to install, lightweight, and come in various guises including as mirrors and pictures and can be wall or ceiling mounted. Their efficiency depends to a degree on the building structure as they heat mass rather than air, but my experience with them in an installation a few years ago has been very favourable and they would be my first choice now.

 

[telectrix]

install a multifuel Aga with a back boiler. . collect wood, chipboard (scrap Ikea stuff put out for bins), shoes, tyres, anything. bonusus is you can alsocook your dinner on it. winner.

 

[brianmoooore]

Worth pointing out that a 100 year old electric heater has exactly the same efficiency as a brand new one (keeping heat pumps out of the discussion). This includes storage heaters, but the difference with modern ones is their ability to retain the heat inside their casing, until you choose to release it.
Heating a property with electricity is always going to be expensive, especially if an off peak tariff is not used, so consideration should first be given to reducing the amount of heat required by improved insulation and draught reduction.

 

[pirate]

Fully agree, @brianmoooore

I have no choice in my home, it's all-electric, and of course the recent price increases on the tariffs means quite a bit more expense. However, it sems likely to me that with the move away from gas boilers in the future, more people will be going electric. The "efficiency" is exactly as you say, but the control over the release of heat makes modern storage radiators more "efficient" in the users' eyes. Some adverts claim better efficiency of course, but that's a bit misleading in my opinion. An elderly couple I know were persuaded to remove 7 old storage radiators and fit 7 new ones from a well-advertised german make...the several thousand pounds they spent on that exercise would have bought them a lot of electricity...
At their age, I doubt it's going to be a good investment, sadly.
For me, it would maybe be worthwhile, as I aim to live forever...so far, so good!

@telectrix I like your solution! I was brought up using an Aga for cooking and heating, and they are ideal in the right circumstances, but the weight and size would capsize my boat, and the cost in pieces of eight would scupper me!

 

[Macsamillion]

I have the same situation, all electric. I changed my storage heaters for elnur gabarron wifi dual element heaters. I use the off peak during winter to heat them up as normal but they also have an instant heat element which can use peak electricity. I have solar so when we need extra heat during the day or the charge programmer is off during summer I can utilize some of the excess energy. They are no more efficient than the old ones but much more controllable in terms of charging and temperature control. I still feel that they release the heat even of the temp setpoint is met. I don't think there is much else out there. Just got to hope electricity prices come down.

 

[nicebutdim]

Some good points to consider and pass on. While I'd go with Tel's suggestion, it isn't feasible to introduce a new system - they do have an open fire for the winter, right below their bedroom.

I've tried suggesting leaving the old heaters as new ones won't be any more efficient, but believe they will be changed one way or another and I'll certainly suggest a coat of paint, but don't think that going to fly either.

Seems their idea of replacing the storage heaters and adding oil-filled rads wasn't too bad, but I'll also suggest modern infrared options.

Thanks all

 

[Grant1987]

I disagree with this because the new smart heaters will not waste electric and draw (charge) the electric at 100% capacity overnight. The intelligent system built in recognises the required duration of period to sustain the required temperature for the next 24 hour period based on ambient temperature and user settings. Obviously during the cold winter nights they are at full demand. The older heaters draw the maximum load regardless each night so you are using more electric and less efficient. It took me a while to fully understand the storage heaters I was installing back 4 or 5 years ago but once I fully understood them I realised that they were definitely more efficient and better than the older storage heating systems.

 

[pirate]

It would have to be a very old storage rad that didn't have some control over the "draw", but I take your point @Grant1987
I also think that the current level of insulation to the house is very important, as is its construction.
I guess there simply isn't a one size fits all solution.
My house has a new roof which is far in excess of the basic BC requirements, I have new double glazing, and large windows to maximise the use of natural sunlight (when it makes an appearance) plus the internal walls are all brick. This retains the heat well, making it ideal for the storage rads but also for a change to infrared. As an example, I switch off my 2 storage rads, hall and living room, on 1st April, or maybe 2 weeks later depending on the weather, and they don't go back on until 1st October. The oil-filled rads in the three bedrooms are never on, except bed 3 which is my office. That room is where I spend a lot of time, so I can toggle it on and off at will.
Should I change to infrared, I'd simply put smart stats on the rads to minimise the time they were on, and basically just use as little electricity as I could. My system switches the whole house to off-peak at midnight, so all rads can benefit. Like I said, every home has its idiosyncracies, as do the inhabitants! For me, if I decided to switch heaters, I'd go for infrared as the cost is similar to new storage rads but I have options for installation which are attractive to me.. I'd probably just keep the oil-filled ones because they are seldom on anyway, so why pay for new rads that would also be never on?
However, this is a very interesting debate, and one which will become ever more relevant as electricity prices rise and gas boilers fall out of favour.
My sister lives in the wilds of Scotland and has a wood-burner. It is cleverly configured along with a propane boiler, so when the wood-burner is on, in the cold months, the gas system is closed off. She has about 60ha of woodland too, so getting fuel for the wood-burner is never a problem! She also has a small turbine system to generate electricity so has all the bases covered...but for most of us that simply isn't an option.
Similarly, a friend was looking at an air-source system. A rural property, but with an old oil-fired boiler. Huge thick walls, all stone floors, and all pipework to the rads would have to be increased, surface mounted, plus an electric immersion heater to boost the water temperature. £15k was the estimate...you can buy a lot of electricity for that! Infrared would be the perfect solution there, I believe, for heating the house, and just using the immerser for water.
My immerser is on for just 1 hour a day, on the off-peak tariff...but I live alone. Enough for a couple of showers a day, yes...but if I had a family of 3 or 4 showering/bathing then that simply wouldn''t be enough. Horses for courses, again.

 

[Grant1987]

It would have to be a very old storage rad that didn't have some control over the "draw", but I take your point @Grant1987
I also think that the current level of insulation to the house is very important, as is its construction.
I guess there simply isn't a one size fits all solution.
My house has a new roof which is far in excess of the basic BC requirements, I have new double glazing, and large windows to maximise the use of natural sunlight (when it makes an appearance) plus the internal walls are all brick. This retains the heat well, making it ideal for the storage rads but also for a change to infrared. As an example, I switch off my 2 storage rads, hall and living room, on 1st April, or maybe 2 weeks later depending on the weather, and they don't go back on until 1st October. The oil-filled rads in the three bedrooms are never on, except bed 3 which is my office. That room is where I spend a lot of time, so I can toggle it on and off at will.
Should I change to infrared, I'd simply put smart stats on the rads to minimise the time they were on, and basically just use as little electricity as I could. My system switches the whole house to off-peak at midnight, so all rads can benefit. Like I said, every home has its idiosyncracies, as do the inhabitants! For me, if I decided to switch heaters, I'd go for infrared as the cost is similar to new storage rads but I have options for installation which are attractive to me.. I'd probably just keep the oil-filled ones because they are seldom on anyway, so why pay for new rads that would also be never on?
However, this is a very interesting debate, and one which will become ever more relevant as electricity prices rise and gas boilers fall out of favour.
My sister lives in the wilds of Scotland and has a wood-burner. It is cleverly configured along with a propane boiler, so when the wood-burner is on, in the cold months, the gas system is closed off. She has about 60ha of woodland too, so getting fuel for the wood-burner is never a problem! She also has a small turbine system to generate electricity so has all the bases covered...but for most of us that simply isn't an option.
Similarly, a friend was looking at an air-source system. A rural property, but with an old oil-fired boiler. Huge thick walls, all stone floors, and all pipework to the rads would have to be increased, surface mounted, plus an electric immersion heater to boost the water temperature. £15k was the estimate...you can buy a lot of electricity for that! Infrared would be the perfect solution there, I believe, for heating the house, and just using the immerser for water.
My immerser is on for just 1 hour a day, on the off-peak tariff...but I live alone. Enough for a couple of showers a day, yes...but if I had a family of 3 or 4 showering/bathing then that simply wouldn''t be enough. Horses for courses, again.

Yes the heating systems throughout the UK are very complex and each needs to be considered for the benefits of the user. As we are the installers and our industry will be heavily reliant in the coming years/ decades we need to weigh up the customers needs and demands and give our expert opinion on the best heating system for the client. Although one of the issues I have is that especially around my area the electrical supply is not ready for the additional electrical demand with regards to electric boilers and storage heaters there is going to be a massive change in the coming years and therefore increased work for us electricians

 

[nicebutdim]

Probably should update this. He got the keys last week and already underway with more extensive refurb than was initially planned.

E7 board consisted of four circuits to storage heaters, with no feed from main board to top up heat during peak hours. Water heating is single element immersion, supplied only from main board through a local timer.

Old storage heaters are gone and he's adamant they're being replaced with oil filled rads. These rads have all bells & whistles, with built-in timer, open window sensors etc, so can be set for short period in mornings etc. New kitchen & bathroom going in, so while the house is empty it makes sense to fully rewire.

There isn't a lot of space beyond that taken up by existing 2x 4 way rewireable boards and contactor, so I'm thinking of simply running everything off a single board, but will let the contactor stay on the off-chance there is a future change in heating arrangement. He's taken a new energy contract on E7, with the aim of availing of cheaper rate for washing/drying and water heating - currently peak rate is little different from 24hr tariff, although there is the standing charge to consider. Not sure what's best on that front and, while it's not my problem, I'm trying to steer a young guy in the right direction in his first home.

 

[GBDamo]

Probably should update this. He got the keys last week and already underway with more extensive refurb than was initially planned.

E7 board consisted of four circuits to storage heaters, with no feed from main board to top up heat during peak hours. Water heating is single element immersion, supplied only from main board through a local timer.

Old storage heaters are gone and he's adamant they're being replaced with oil filled rads. These rads have all bells & whistles, with built-in timer, open window sensors etc, so can be set for short period in mornings etc. New kitchen & bathroom going in, so while the house is empty it makes sense to fully rewire.

There isn't a lot of space beyond that taken up by existing 2x 4 way rewireable boards and contactor, so I'm thinking of simply running everything off a single board, but will let the contactor stay on the off-chance there is a future change in heating arrangement. He's taken a new energy contract on E7, with the aim of availing of cheaper rate for washing/drying and water heating - currently peak rate is little different from 24hr tariff, although there is the standing charge to consider. Not sure what's best on that front and, while it's not my problem, I'm trying to steer a young guy in the right direction in his first home.

If he's undertaking major refurbishment then it might be worth considering a heat pump. If he can get the insulation levels right and the emitters sized correctly then they do work.

On anything other than an all electric property I warn people of heat pumps, unless eyour some environmental zealot, as the savings Vs gas are not real. Especially when you factor in cost of installation and maintenance. Also there will always be days, when you most need it, where a heat pump just won't cut it.

 

[nicebutdim]

If he's undertaking major refurbishment then it might be worth considering a heat pump. If he can get the insulation levels right and the emitters sized correctly then they do work.

On anything other than an all electric property I warn people of heat pumps, unless eyour some environmental zealot, as the savings Vs gas are not real. Especially when you factor in cost of installation and maintenance. Also there will always be days, when you most need it, where a heat pump just won't cut it.

More extensive that originally planned, but nothing that constitutes a major refurbishment.

Heat pump was one of the options I raised, along with traditional wet systems, but he doesn't have the money to install a whole new system. Early 20s and saved hard, but every penny (and more) have been accounted for. Then again, with electric heating, it's possible he'll never have money for anything!