Outbuilding Smoke detector required?

[SSE]

Do you have to fit a smoke detector in outbuildings? It's a new build, about 20metres from the house and is half kennels half storage area? Someone told me there's no need but I wasn't sure if that was correct

 

[tazz]

Change of plans I've now been told. There will be ceilings going on the joists now! I'll only need to fit a smoke detector in the workshop/storage area now I'd imagine.

This will now possibly increase the risk of false alarms by bringing detection lower, there is also now a void area above which will require detection

 

[JD6400]

It would help to know the relative flammability of the dogs that are being held there. Some dogs are notoriously flammable and classed as higher risk. I think there is a BS chart somewhere showing each breed against its particular Df classification. High Df figures will need more rigid fire protection and possibly sprinklers. Daz

I know you are taking the pee but you do not know how close to the truth you are ! I have already posted about this a few years ago in a thread titled " worst ever job " or something similar . We had a rewire on a knackers yard with three incinerators that was on contract to burn something like 40 ton of dogs a week ( all from around the Peterborough area ) , that were being brought in by a skip loader and just dumped in the middle of the yard . The largest incinerator ( which we had not long installed for this very contract ) was being worked past capacity so they could keep up , and what can only be described as a small river of liquid dog fat was flowing out of its front door and was being covered with a scattering of road salt to soak it up and put it out as it kept igniting . Worse still was the fact that all of our main cable runs ran past the front of this incinerator and we ended up having to pull most of them across the yard around the dead dogs and through the fat ( in between burns) which meant we kept getting covered from head to toe each day in the dog fat ! Apparently they could tell if the load was made up of strays or from the vets because the ones that were well looked after in life , made far more running fat and also burnt far faster , often without the need of the burners once going ! So you were not that far out , you see ! Edit; It may have only been around 20 tons a week , thinking about it again .

 

[SSE]

This will now possibly increase the risk of false alarms by bringing detection lower, there is also now a void area above which will require detection

Why? It's basically an attic so there shouldn't be any need? Also, I don't know if this makes a difference but this isn't commercial, it's just for the homeowners dogs.

 

[LeckyBill]

Why? It's basically an attic so there shouldn't be any need? Also, I don't know if this makes a difference but this isn't commercial, it's just for the homeowners dogs.

agreed wouldnt waist my mney

 

[tazz]

Any void greater than 800mm will require detection, BS standard, if you dont want to follow these rules, your choice. You are signing the cert..

 

[SSE]

Any void greater than 800mm will require detection, BS standard, if you dont want to follow these rules, your choice. You are signing the cert..

If that's the case there's literally thousand and thousands of council properties without this. I've never been in a council house, or any property for that matter that has detectors in the attic.

 

[trev]

Not just council houses mate, I think I've only ever seen 2 places with detection in the loft.

 

[SSE]

Not just council houses mate, I think I've only ever seen 2 places with detection in the loft.

Agreed, was just using council as an example as if anyone should be going by the book it's them...or maybe not. lol.

 

[tazz]

Domestic premises dont require loft detection, not by bs standards, but by risk assement, as long as water heaters etc are not installed. This outbuilding cannot be classed as domestic....your call guys

 

[trev]

Agreed, was just using council as an example as if anyone should be going by the book it's them...or maybe not. lol.

Oh crikey no mate, I've been on council jobs with some proper clowns who were directly employed.

 

[SSE]

Domestic premises dont require loft detection, not by bs standards, but by risk assement, as long as water heaters etc are not installed. This outbuilding cannot be classed as domestic....your call guys

Mmm, can see where you're coming from kind of but to me it just seems like it's something that isn't needed. Out of curiosity what would you class the building as? It's basically a little garage with 3 cupboards.......

 

[tazz]

Well Im trying to help and give you the best advice i can, but is seems to be going nowhere..... Domestic properties come under part 6, and is classed as a living dwelling, a garage linked to the property would be considered the same. Any building seperated can not be classed as a dwelling. its now a building. So will come under part 1.....Lofts in dwelling are not protected under assessments due to being low risk, if any heating or ventalation equipment were to be fitted into the loft, then detection would be requested. New council builds are fitting solar inverters and water heaters in lofts at present, so detection is now becoming more common in loft areas.............Your out building can only be classed as a independant building not a dwelling, garage or commercial premises...so part 1 will need to be in place here, again a risk assessment would need to be done to advise what is needed or at least fit a P1/L1 systems to cover....The main things you need to consider her is live animals, fuels, foods, construction of building wood/brick, the tractor itself...these are all risks of a protential fire. as suggested would fire fire control panel cheep 2 zone, with siren outside premises, and then consider what detection is going to suit this enviroment

 

[SSE]

Well Im trying to help and give you the best advice i can, but is seems to be going nowhere..... Domestic properties come under part 6, and is classed as a living dwelling, a garage linked to the property would be considered the same. Any building seperated can not be classed as a dwelling. its now a building. So will come under part 1.....Lofts in dwelling are not protected under assessments due to being low risk, if any heating or ventalation equipment were to be fitted into the loft, then detection would be requested. New council builds are fitting solar inverters and water heaters in lofts at present, so detection is now becoming more common in loft areas.............Your out building can only be classed as a independant building not a dwelling, garage or commercial premises...so part 1 will need to be in place here, again a risk assessment would need to be done to advise what is needed or at least fit a P1/L1 systems to cover....The main things you need to consider her is live animals, fuels, foods, construction of building wood/brick, the tractor itself...these are all risks of a protential fire. as suggested would fire fire control panel cheep 2 zone, with siren outside premises, and then consider what detection is going to suit this enviroment

Your input is appreciated, doesn't mean I can't give my opinion though. A fire panel etc just ain't going to happen, it was hard enough convincing him to put a detector in!! I've attached a quick plan overview, out of curiosity where would you say I need detectors?

 

[tazz]

Would suggest, you walking away and not get involved. Your head will be on the line if you sign this off. if the customer doesnt want to protect his premises...thats his choice, once you sign a certificate it becomes your problem. L1 would required detection in every room...Minimum would be tractor/workshop area.

 

[SSE]

Would suggest, you walking away and not get involved. Your head will be on the line if you sign this off. if the customer doesnt want to protect his premises...thats his choice, L1 would required detection in every room...Minimum would be tractor/workshop area.

Think what I'll do is take the drawings into the council offices and ask them what they will require, that way they can let us know what is the minimum required, this way if they say each room then he'll listen them, if it was up to me I'd cover myself and put it in each room but the guy won't want it. Can't walkaway from the job I'm afraid. Also when the ceiling is on, there will still be a gap of about 4 inches between top of each wall seperating the room and the ceiling.