Part B and Part P Compliance

[pfm401]

Hi all

We've had some works done in our kitchen which has involved fitting a new cooker circuit, installing some downlights to replace ceiling roses, and adding a couple of sockets via a spur. The approach is that the fitter does it and then the work is signed off (yes I know I should have used a qualified electrician and have learned the hard way!).

However I am confused about the rules and regulations and unfortunately am not seeing eye to eye with the fitter about this (amongst other things). My understanding, based on the internet and talking to a couple of sparkies, and which could therefore be very wrong, is as follows:

• The new cooker circuit is notifiable and therefore needs testing by a qualified electrician; I should get a Certificate of Electrical Compliance from the testing sparky, and something from Building Control once the sparky has sent off the testing. The fitter is agreed on this
• As the downlights are in the kitchen and have living space above them, they need to be fire rated to comply with Part B. They weren't fire rated and I only spotted this because I went to but some spares in case they go later (non-replaceable bulbs). The fitter then agreed to replace them but kept letting us down - in fact he claims we've sacked him so he can't replace them (this is not true, we asked to terminate the contract due to the length of time taken, then sent another email outlining remedial work, including this, with timescales, it's another in a long line of excuses due to him having too much work on).
• As the downlights and new sockets are alterations to circuits I believe they should be signed off by a qualified sparky and I get a Certificate of Minor Works from them. This would not be notifiable to Building Control

The disputed point (from an electrical angle) is really the third one; the fitter is saying this work doesn't need any sort of qualified person to review. I'm concerned this leaves us open to risk of incorrect fitting and testing, in the event of an issue or on selling the house.

Is there anyone who knows more than me about it? I would have thought you might "get away with" minor works yourself, but I'm paying someone to do it, and I can't see how they can avoid sign off either professionally or because I'd be surprised if their insurance covers it. I'm sure his work is probably ok (Part B issue aside) but don't want to take that on myself (and why should I?).

I've pretty much demanded an immediate test but the fitter is trying to limit it to the cooker circuit. I don't think this is at all appropriate; they fitted the downlights and sockets and need to get it approved (which the downlights won't be due to the Part B issue). To be honest I'm tempted just to refer the whole thing to Trading Standards.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Once again sorry - with hindsight I know I've done the wrong thing and should have employed a qualified electrician in the first place. I'll get my tin hat...

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[davesparks]

You should have received an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) covering all of the electrical work carried out on the job.
There's no need for seperate minor works certificates for each circuit, the whole lot can be certified under one EIC.

Depending on the exact details of the construction you may not need fire rated fittings, it has just become the norm to fit them everywhere these days to keep things simple.

 

[Taylortwocities]

As above. Unless the kitchen ceiling is a fire barrier (it won’t be in a normal house) then fire-rated downlights are not necessary .

 

[pfm401]

You should have received an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) covering all of the electrical work carried out on the job.
There's no need for seperate minor works certificates for each circuit, the whole lot can be certified under one EIC.

Depending on the exact details of the construction you may not need fire rated fittings, it has just become the norm to fit them everywhere these days to keep things simple.

Thank you

The inspection hasn't been done yet, it's due tomorrow. The builder is trying to limit it to the cooker circuit as he says the minor works don't need inspection, but I'm insistent it should include all the changes. I don't mind if it's a single EIC as long as it mentions the cooker circuit, the lights and the sockets and not just the cooker circuit, or as far as I'm concerned it's incomplete. When I called the inspecting firm to check scope (lost confidence in the builder so checked) I could swear blind they said the amended circuits needed testing for continuity.

In fact Part P 3.13 seems to specifically requiring inspection and testing for non-notifiable work and presumably that can only be done by a sparky??

 

[pfm401]

As above. Unless the kitchen ceiling is a fire barrier (it won’t be in a normal house) then fire-rated downlights are not necessary .

Mmm the inspecting firm said on the phone they would check and fail it under Part B ...

 

[westward10]

EIC for the new circuit, Minor Works for the rest. All new works or alterations require testing to ensure the circuits are safe and meet requirements, the new circuit requires notification.
Never let a builder get involved with electrical works they are jacks of all trades and masters of none.

 

[davesparks]

Thank you

The inspection hasn't been done yet, it's due tomorrow. The builder is trying to limit it to the cooker circuit as he says the minor works don't need inspection, but I'm insistent it should include all the changes. I don't mind if it's a single EIC as long as it mentions the cooker circuit, the lights and the sockets and not just the cooker circuit, or as far as I'm concerned it's incomplete. When I called the inspecting firm to check scope (lost confidence in the builder so checked) I could swear blind they said the amended circuits needed testing for continuity.

In fact Part P 3.13 seems to specifically requiring inspection and testing for non-notifiable work and presumably that can only be done by a sparky??

All electrical work which has been done should be inspected and tested with the results recorded on the appropriate certificate.
In this case the results should be recorded on a schedule of test results attached to an electrical installation certificate.

All relevant tests need to be carried out on all circuits worked on.

 

[davesparks]

EIC for the new circuit, Minor Works for the rest. All new works or alterations require testing to ensure the circuits are safe and meet requirements, the new circuit requires notification.
Never let a builder get involved with electrical works they are jacks of all trades and masters of none.

Equally all of the work can be certified on a single EIC, it doesn't need to have seperate minor works certificates for each circuit.

 

[pfm401]

EIC for the new circuit, Minor Works for the rest. All new works or alterations require testing to ensure the circuits are safe and meet requirements, the new circuit requires notification.
Never let a builder get involved with electrical works they are jacks of all trades and masters of none.

Thank you, that was my understanding.

Yep you're right, lesson learned - and not just on the electrics! First and last time I ever have building work done!

 

[pfm401]

Equally all of the work can be certified on a single EIC, it doesn't need to have seperate minor works certificates for each circuit.

I'm picking up that the main thing is it MUST be certified by a qualified sparky

 

[Taylortwocities]

Mmm the inspecting firm said on the phone they would check and fail it under Part B ...

They are wrong then.
Part B says
9.1 Every joint, imperfect fit and opening for services through a fire-separating element should be sealed with fire-stopping to ensure that the fire resistance of the element is not impaired. Fire-stopping delays the spread of fire and, generally, the spread of smoke as well.

It is very unlikely that the kitchen ceiling is a fire-separating element.
So, therefore there is NO REQUIREMENT is install fire-rated downlights or any other sort of intumescent materials.

 

[pfm401]

They are wrong then.
Part B says
9.1 Every joint, imperfect fit and opening for services through a fire-separating element should be sealed with fire-stopping to ensure that the fire resistance of the element is not impaired. Fire-stopping delays the spread of fire and, generally, the spread of smoke as well.

It is very unlikely that the kitchen ceiling is a fire/separating element.
So, therefore there is NO REQUIREMENT is install fire-rated downlights or any other sort of intumescent materials.

Ok thank you.

 

[Dartlec]

I'm picking up that the main thing is it MUST be certified by a qualified sparky

It's slightly more complicated than that, but that's the simple version.

The new circuit which has to be notified, should in theory be notified by the person who did the work, who should be registered on one of the Part P schemes. With very few exceptions, only the person doing the work can notify it.

There are a few possible ways round that, which normally involve paying the Building Control people money and notifying them in advance of the work.

It sounds like you have a tester coming who did not install it, so already things are not quite right. However, if they are prepared to notify it, then that is on them as they are legally taking full responsibility for the notified work as if they had done it.

Be sure that whoever does the certificate, you also get a "Building Regulations Certificate of Compliance" to prove that the notification has been made - as that is the part that will complicate future sales if it's missed.