Part F building regs...................

[Gavin John Hyde]

Had an email from some outfit suggesying to keep building control happy we sparks should do a course to certify our extractor fans, cooker hoods etc.. never been asked for one yet but maybe one day i will. If i recall in the niceic online portal there is a form dv1 for certificating such things.
Anybody heard of this lot (email below)


Building Inspectors are tightening up on Part F of the building regs. Ventilation is becoming a hot topic right now, and electricians are bearing the brunt of it. If you haven’t alreadybeen asked for a fan test certificate for your bathroom extractor fan or cooker hood install, you soon will be!

The good news is that doing your own fan tests isn’t that complicated - once you know how! Our online course will get you quickly up to speed on testing domestic extraction fans - plus we’ll even give you a FREE HIRE of the test equipmentyou’ll need to do it!

With our easy-to-follow videos and checklists, you’ll be confidently testing your installations and providing professional fan-test certificates for your clients and Building Inspectors. And since the average price paid for a fan test done is over £72, you can charge for it too!

PEATA is the Professional Extraction Airflow Testers Alliance.Join us today, and for less than £6.70 per month you’ll get comprehensive training, easy-to-use online certificate creation, a FREE HIRE of the test equipment, and more. It’s a no-brainer!
https://www.peata.org.uk/

Sounds like for around 75 quid a year you can have another van sticker!!

 

[PEATAMark]

@Midwest :The air tightness testing is different from the extraction airflow testing. You don't need to do airflow tests on fans in extensions, but you do need to prepare commissioning notice. The relevant paragraphs from the regs are:
"Changes in the legal requirements

3. All fixed mechanical ventilation systems, where they can be tested and adjusted, shall be commissioned and a commissioning notice given to the Building Control Body.
4. For mechanical ventilation systems installed in new dwellings, air flow rates shall be measured on site and a notice given to the Building Control Body. This shall apply to intermittently-used extract fans and cooker hoods, as well as continuously running systems."

There's a whole bunch of other stuff regarding condensation lines, max number of bends in ducting, etc. Luckily, we've collated all the relevant info for you in the handy PEATA online course ... ;-)

Cheers,
Mark

 

[SparkyChick]

Good to see we're making an impression!

I'm not convinced this applies to the average domestic spark to be fair unless it's a new build as nearly all the extractor devices we're likely to encounter are non-adjustable (I believe the adjustment to which Part F refers quite a bit is specifically in relation to airflow - none of the devices I've ever fitted have been adjustable beyond the adjustment provided by the manufacturer - i.e. different speed settings for say a cooker hood or time periods in relation to timed fans which of course has no impact on airflow rates just total volume), but building regs aside, unfortunately for me, it's the wrong kind of impression you're making.

For a start I don't appreciate unsolicited email marketing, regardless of whether or not it's compliant with the GDPR legislation, although according to some guidance I've read if it's a small company consisting of a single person you should abide by the business to consumer parts and seek consent from said individual. You've just plucked my email address from either my scheme website or the competent persons register website and mailed me with information that I have not requested, did not consent to and as best as I can tell in your case is not relevant to me. You're not the first, you definitely won't be the last but I do try and make it a point not to do business with people who just mail me out of the blue.

Secondly, I find it quite interesting that there are two variants of you on the companies house website. Both involved with different commercial entities that appear to share a common naming theme using various addresses (even two flavours of the same address and even I believe two slightly different versions of you involved in one entity - i.e. director with one name and address and a PSC with a slightly different name and another address). One might conclude you're trying to obfuscate any links between them with some level of plausible deniability.

I've also tried to find the information that made me highlight the difference in registered office address, but I have thus far been unable to which leads me to conclude you've made some changes somewhere because when I received your email originally I was able to find out quite quickly that PEATA is a trading name of a property development company... now that link appears to have been erased, so again one might conclude you're trying to obfuscate any links there too. And there was me thinking that if you're trading under a different name you have to be open and honest about it and perhaps provide some form of link to the real commercial entity such as a company registration number or perhaps even a statement to the effect that it's 'company x trading as PEATA'.

I also don't like the fact that I can't see how much joining is going to cost me until you've already collected my details. Which I believe (according to your privacy policy) then allows you to store them and process them in accordance with said policy because I've given them to you.

There's no address for PEATA, no company details, no details of the team there... nothing.

Based on the above, I'm not convinced you're 100% legit and I would perhaps go so far as to say it's a scam of some form designed to part electricians (and others) from their hard earned cash by scaring us into believing we're falling foul of the building regulations by not doing something which as best as I can tell we're not required to do. New builds and variable airflow rate devices yes, old properties and fixed rate devices... not convinced.

Disclaimer - I should point out, my comments above are my own views and opinions and should not be interpreted as the views of other staff members or the forum owners.

 

[Octopus]

We are required to fan test all fans installed in new builds as required by the building inspector

Hum ....... where is that stated in BS 7671?

Its not

Therefore its not our problem.

 

[SparkyChick]

Hum ....... where is that stated in BS 7671?

Its not

Therefore its not our problem.

Not sure I agree with that. We are obliged to comply with the relevant parts of the building regulations and Part F does make it clear that under certain conditions certification is required for ventilation devices. I'm just not convinced the scope is as broad as Mr. Corti and PEATA make it out to be.

 

[mattg4321]

I've done a few new builds in the past few months and never been required to test the airflow of an extractor fan. Nor have I ever heard of anyone else having to do so for a small domestic extractor fan.

 

[Ian1981]

Hum ....... where is that stated in BS 7671?

Its not

Therefore its not our problem.

And?
Smoke detectors are certified to bs 5839-6 requiring us to certify to that standard.
It’s not all about bs7671
We are required to fan test and provide certification as required by the NHBC so I’m not sure why you are disagreeing with me?
If we do not provide certification then the house does not pass it’s CML
This is not just a few builds , this is housing sites for the major house builders and is required full stop if it’s in your original price/tendor.

 

[Octopus]

And?
Smoke detectors are certified to bs 5839-6 requiring us to certify to that standard.
It’s not all about bs7671
We are required to fan test and provide certification as required by the NHBC so I’m not sure why you are disagreeing with me?
If we do not provide certification then the house does not pass it’s CML
This is not just a few builds , this is housing sites for the major house builders and is required full stop if it’s in your original price/tendor.

Never been asked for a cert for a smoke detector

Never been asked to test a fan

Never worked on a new build

Never been asked for this on refurb

No wonder people are turning their backs on all this carp

 

[Ian1981]

Never been asked for a cert for a smoke detector

Never been asked to test a fan

Never worked on a new build

Never been asked for this on refurb

No wonder people are turning their backs on all this carp

We are required to provide an EIC and a smoke detector certificate attached to the EIC.
And a ventilation certificate stating the location and type of each fan installed along with the airflow m/s as required.
I moved into a new build 4 years ago and received all of the above from the house builder

Your not missing much not doing new builds.
I do a bit but supervise a lot of them and go to site meetings.
They are carp as you say but a major source of work for the company, maybe 60%

 

[haptism]

When I build my own house its gonna have an outside toilet,

 

[Midwest]

We are required to provide an EIC and a smoke detector certificate attached to the EIC.
And a ventilation certificate stating the location and type of each fan installed along with the airflow m/s as required.
I moved into a new build 4 years ago and received all of the above from the house builder

Your not missing much not doing new builds.
I do a bit but supervise a lot of them and go to site meetings.
They are carp as you say but a major source of work for the company, maybe 60%

My new build developer never gave me such a certificate, just left full of mastic'd skirting. I'll be on to them.

 

[Ian1981]

My new build developer never gave me such a certificate, just left full of mastic'd skirting. I'll be on to them.

Sorry to clarify I never received a fan airflow certificate, I’m assuming that just goes to the developer, but I’ve got a EIC and a smoke detector certificate

 

[Midwest]

I only got a EIC, which the designer forgot to sign!

 

[Ian1981]

You have to remember that the smoke detectors required certification in accordance with bs 5839 part 6

 

[Midwest]

---- certificate though ain’t it.

 

[PEATAMark]

There's certainly a lot of variation in how the regs are enforced between different Building Control Officers, but as you can see in the forum, people certainly are being asked for airflow certificates for new builds.
WRT fixed-flow fans: the issue isn't really adjusting them, it's the install that can cause performance degradation. For a simple straight-out-through-the-wall bathroom extractor, there's not much to go wrong; when you've got ducting through the loft space, then you've got potential issues with type of ducting, number of bends, & all that kind of thing - particularly if other trades have been in behind you. I'm told that's the rationale behind the airflow tests & commissioning notice requirements in the regs - checking the whole fan install, not just relying on the numbers on the side of the box it came in.
It's been my experience that people aren't all that familiar with the rules on this stuff, but it's got a massive effect on the actual airflow the fan can supply. Hence the online course - the information is out there, but it's buried throughout 100s of pages of regs & guidance. I felt that having it in a simple, easy-to-digest form was a useful thing.

Good point on cost visibility, thank you; I'll get that made clearer on the website next week. For a sole trader, the cost is £80 - no other costs. We'll also loan you a free vane anemometer to do your first test with. If your building inspector is asking for an airflow test certificate or commissioning notice, I think it's a reasonable deal for a useful service - if you aren't too worried about Part F at the moment, then just bear us in mind for the future.

Enjoy your weekend, all