Part P & the 17th Edition.

[Big n Daft]

"If you are to focus on the necessity to abide by the rules then in order to avoid hypocrisy I presume you who criticise will be diligent in ensuring every cash payment you receive is recorded for tax purposes, that you carefully separate and pay out of your earnings the equipment you install in your own home, that you drive within the speed limit, when required you use scaffold rather than a ladder, you have taken the trouble to be fully conversant with the building regs and vat legislation to the extent that it your business is required, that your vehicle is not only MOTed but safe. It goes without saying that you will never have tasted cannabis or taken hard drugs or turn up for electrical installation work hung over or too ill to do the job properly


In my opinion it is impossible for a young person to start a business and not break the rules in some way by both accident and design. In my observations most drivers exceed the speed limit they and we are rule breakers, sometimes there is the added possibility of our rule breaking putting ourselves and others in danger. If you are a rule breaker in some area of human endevor temper your indignation at fellow rule breakers who happen to exercise their deficiencies in electrical installation"

What a load of complete and utter tosh!!!

"Is it a requirement that you have to be an intellectual giant to understand the rules of electrical installation in a domestic situation for example? Well, you don't need to be but the 17th edition is a serious attempt at straining the average persons understanding of the English language. I consider it one of the most useless docuements known to man. Considering we have millions of houses in the UK any industry with a modicum of collective intelligence would have the rules for house wiring presented in a format written specific to housing instead of the present universal document written to test our understanding of language rather than to clearly inform us of electrical standards."
Glad we got to bit of common sense in the end, it was almost worth it

 

[mattsavill]

In my opinion Part P is an industry money making scam, I went to college part time for 10 years completing C&G 236 pt's 1, 2 and c course 2391 pat testing and went on to get an ONC and HNC in electrical engineering, and i am a senior member of my firms electrical organisation, I also used to be self employed working for myself at the weekends to make a bit extra, and then part P came in, and took away my capability of earning extra money without being scammed yearly for a few hundred pounds to be assessed by somebody less qualified and less competant than me. I agree that there are cowboys out there but Part P has make the cowboys cheaper, I am no longer self employed as it is not worth the hassle.

If the Government want people to get of there backsides and stop scrouging from the tax payers they need to make things easier.

 

[professional]

If the Government want people to get of there backsides and stop scrouging from the tax payers they need to make things easier.

I agree entirely - an individual licensing system would be easy and would afford assurance to the householder that the INDIVIDUAL entering their premises was actually competent - but that would require people to be trained and experienced, which is far less lucrative than the farce that we are currently enduring.:wink_smile:

 

[PJE]

Hi,

I have been a member of this forum since March 12[SUP]th[/SUP] 2011 and have regularly visited since then and have always enjoyed reading the various threads and feel there are some really decent people on here trying to make an honest living in the face of never ending barriers in front of them.

Don’t know if this is the right place to post this but as this thread concerns Part P and 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition regs thought I would ask anyway.

Just wondering if any of you lads can give me any advice.

Up until 2000 I was employed as an Electrician in the electrical contracting industry ( building sites, Industrial, Domestic etc ). I had all the qualifications req up to that point which were 16th edition C&G etc.

At that point I left the industry to work in newspaper printing as the lure of sick pay and company pension scheme amongst other things became attractive especially as I was over 40rs old and not getting any younger.

However all good things come to an end and next year in keeping with most things in this country there will be major redundancy’s at the plant I work at.

I may or may not be chosen for redundancy but rather than take a chance and just wait to see if the dreaded letter dropps through my door I thought it best to try and safe guard myself by finding out what would be involved in getting back up to speed with the electrical side of things again.

During the time I have been away from our industry I have still done small jobs domestically for family and friends and tried to keep up with the changes such as Part P and the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition regs.

My question is if I was to start up again albeit on a self employed part time basis what is my best route to follow.
regarding courses on 17[SUP]th[/SUP] edition regs and Part P etc to get back up to speed.

What are the beat courses I could look at to achieve this.

If any one could offer any advice I would be very grateful.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Kind regards,

Phil.

 

[malcolmsanford]

PJE as you have "kept your hand in" basically all you really need is the 17th edition update. As you took the 16th I assume before 2001 you will need to do the complete 3 day course, and chances are your not going to get one of these before the amendment kicks in now, so I would personally wait until the new year and do the C&G 2382-12.

As for the Part P regulations I would recommend this book

Electrician's Guide to the Building Regulations Approved Document P, Electrical Safety in Dwellings: Amazon.co.uk: Books

It covers pretty much everything you need to know and is quite a good guide

 

[PJE]

Hi malcolmsanford,

Many thanks for your quick reply. Have had a look at the link you supplied but having read the reviews it appears there is now an updated version of this.

One review read as follows:

Excellent book, however it is out of date, I spent 19 quid on this only to find out that the updated version is also for sale

Electrician's Guide to the Building Regulations: Pt. P Wiring Regulations : Pt. P Wiring Regulations: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Cook: Books

The original version should be removed from Amazon & I should get the update free !

So I will definitely look into this.

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post was that having read through all this thread, it appears if you want to be responsible for signing your own work off you need to be registered with one of the electrical organisations like NICEIC.

Does anyone have any recommendations to which one is the best to go with as I know organisations like these have a tendency to be over officious probably to justify the job they are supposed to do.

Anyway once again many thanks for your help.

Regards,

Phil.

 

[oldie]

In Canada you apply for a permit before you begin work. The "City" send out the Inspector before you even start! Then he calls back to look at a "rough in" if all is good you get the ok to cover up and call him back for final test. Sounds a lot of hastle but it works well and lots of support from the inspector who does actually want it to move at your pace just so long as you are doing it right! Homeowners do DIY elecrical but hey! when they are selling they must report everything and the lawers love it!!

 

[Bonfireman]

Hi there.

I need to get my 17th edition certificate. Can I do the exam without the course? Studying at home by myself?

I know it's much better take te course but now I'm short of money and really need this certificate. Some information or link may help.

Thank you very much.

 

[Astro800]

Yes it's true! whether it will get thrown or or not is another thing. I have it straight from the horses mouth. Someone who is part of the governing body & writes the regulations has told me that part P is going to be put before the government, to make it more difficult to be registered.

Within the next year or so, you will have to have qualified with the full City & Guilds 4 year course. So if you are going to take part P, do it now!

 

[Astro800]

The system we are going to have in Europe, will be similar to the rules & regulations that they have in Australia.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Yes it's true! whether it will get thrown or or not is another thing. I have it straight from the horses mouth. Someone who is part of the governing body & writes the regulations has told me that part P is going to be put before the government, to make it more difficult to be registered.

Within the next year or so, you will have to have qualified with the full City & Guilds 4 year course. So if you are going to take part P, do it now!

Think the NICEC/NAPIT/ELECSA might have an input on that one

 

[Astro800]

It's NICEC/NAPIT/ELECSA that are involved in the process. EU directive & the Brussels Brigade.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is going to kill the cash cow then

 

[Astro800]

We seem to have gone from virtually no statutory requirement, to over regulation.
It's isn't even at the proposal stage yet, so It could be several years.

Something needed doing years ago, because sparkies just started working for themselves & quite a few were bodgers, plumbers, handy men & DIY-ers. All you needed to do was drop a simple completion form in to your regional electricity board & that was it.

 

[Astro800]

There is talk of it on here http://www.*****************forum.co.uk/electrician-talk-forum/14639-part-p-changes-possibly.html

This seems to be all speculation, but as I said, I heard it straight from the horses mouth, but he didn't elaborate on it.