Part P training . It must be stopped

[Gary Soulsby]

As most of you are aware part p was introduced in 2005. This has lead to a huge surge in people becoming part p registered installers. This is not the issue although anyone who works on electrical installations should have "sufficient" knowledge and training as to minimise risk.

The approved appretiship does this as anyone wanting to become qualified has to obtain level 2&3 technical cert and level 3 NVQ as well as sit the AM2 test.

Currently company's are offering training to become an approved domestic installer in 5 DAYS!!
That isn't even enough time to get someone entirely used to useing the regs book never mind classified as "competent"

In the end of the day these people are taking the easy option, of which I understand but that should not come at the price of safety and the loss of work of approved electricians that have spent 3-5 years training.

Find attacked the link to a petition stop the training of these under qualified "electricians"

Petition: Scrap Part P, someone with 5 days experience is not safe to work on electrics - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207481/sponsors/new?token=xUnMdAVdRq7xSzVHb68h

 

[sevuk]

I believe the regulation says something along the lines of "to avoid overuse of heavy current use on a RFC would be to install anything over 2 KW on a separate circuit, doesn't actually say don't do it, like George says "it's an advisory"

It says "this can generally be achieved by" and then lists the examples, so you are correct, but the listed items must be taken into consideration.

My point is these things needs to be considered in ring design, and a good taking point for kitchen fitters and plumbers on a regs course.

Otherwise quite dangerously, the same people will just hear "it's only advisory" and subsequently proceed to load up one side of the ring with cookers and heaters. Then the user comes along, who knows even less about electrics will come along and plug even more appliances into the wrong side of the ring.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and we are not going to make it so only qualified electricians touch electrics, so why not gear people up with the knowledge required for their limited scope minor works?

I am against the notion that someone can come from nothing to become an electrician in 1 week to 3 months.

 

[Spoon]

Has this petition not got 5 people to sign it yet. Still no info comes up. You could be signing anything.

 

[sevuk]

Has this petition not got 5 people to sign it yet. Still no info comes up. You could be signing anything.

Maybe you're enrolling in a part p course?

 

[Spoon]

Maybe you're enrolling in a part p course?

lmao.... Class.

 

[Pete999]

It says "this can generally be achieved by" and then lists the examples, so you are correct, but the listed items must be taken into consideration.

My point is these things needs to be considered in ring design, and a good taking point for kitchen fitters and plumbers on a regs course.

Otherwise quite dangerously, the same people will just hear "it's only advisory" and subsequently proceed to load up one side of the ring with cookers and heaters. Then the user comes along, who knows even less about electrics will come along and plug even more appliances into the wrong side of the ring.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and we are not going to make it so only qualified electricians touch electrics, so why not gear people up with the knowledge required for their limited scope minor works?

I am against the notion that someone can come from nothing to become an electrician in 1 week to 3 months.

I doubt very much, that Kitchen fitters and the like will take in much info on the 17th Regs course, more interested in getting "the qualification" it's just an exercise in reading a book, and looking up the answers.

 

[sevuk]

I doubt very much, that Kitchen fitters and the like will take in much info on the 17th Regs course, more interested in getting "the qualification" it's just an exercise in reading a book, and looking up the answers.

Sadly it is common, on my 2391 course there were many questions on how to pass the course rather than using the time to actually learn something.

On building sites a lot of contractors expect all skilled people to hold a specific trade card, but this is because of liability on large jobs. It just won't happen on single jobs for homeowners.

The battle is with human nature, and a large part of that is also money. A bid to ban these courses will not be successful, I think the way forward is working with that truth.

 

[WillWX]

I’m sorry but if you think a 6 or 23 day course or whatever it was, is going to automatically give someone the knowledge and confidence to go and attempt to work in somebody’s home the next day, you’re deluded.

 

[Pete999]

I’m sorry but if you think a 6 or 23 day course or whatever it was, is going to automatically give someone the knowledge and confidence to go and attempt to work in somebody’s home the next day, you’re deluded.

Trouble is mate, lots of them do.

 

[a-z electrics]

I don't think it's part P that's the problem.. the idea is right but whether the standards and policing of it is right is another question. Also, I agree there is no substitute for experience, hopefully learned not the hard way! But knowledge is also necessary.
I did a DI course spread over 1 year and thought it was basically sound but of course they can't teach you everything.. I also have a HND in engineering which involves physics, material science and electrical science as well as some electronics with some practical assessments. I am a keen DIYer who has done various small building projects which I consider invaluable in the learning process.. I'm happy to be called a Domestic Installer and don't touch commercial or industrial work.. if there's any aspect I'm unsure of I seek advice from my assessment company or the forum, who are (usually) very helpful
At the end of the day it's down to the integrity of the individual to do a safe and honest job and to know his/her limitations. I'm continually amazed at how bad some existing installations are.. the other day I was replacing some downlights of which the whole house had been recently fitted, it had a newish looking dual RCD consumer unit.. there were 6 lighting circuits and another 5 other circuits.. not one was labelled! This doesn't need a qualification or training does it? It's just common sense!
Now plumbers and builders dabbling in electrics is also another issue! But better they have been on a course than not..

 

[Derrick Winn]

When I was serving my apprenticeship 1971 -1974. 14th edition, you also had short training courses of I think 6 weeks ,which were called dilutes . Now when part P came I had to do all these new up grades 16th edition 5 day course ,17th edition which think It was 1 day course . In the seventies you had Electrician , Approved Electrician then a Technician. So we're still differently categorised. Part P is a money racket and is costing jobs ,to cover the cost of part p we have to increase pricing ,most people cost is the most important . Never been asked if part P registered .

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think the petitions era has passed,nobody will give two monkeys about any petition,if a select committee can be ignored and dismissed with ease,what chance a petition


Now,my wish list

Abolish that part P registered nonsense ,no more worries about the Part P qualified this and that

Open up all domestic installation work unrestricted to whoever believes they can do that work
(It does not really require a full blown electrician to work on domestic wiring,a decent head and pair of hands and its well within most peoples capability)

The government could make compulsory an inspection report for all new build and house sales like they were intending

We could campaign to get a register of electricians who can do these reports,possibly on behalf of a Government agency which has set fees for these inspections

Heres to dreaming I suppose

At least someone here has a decent perspective on all of this, I can't believe how pompous some of you chaps are, domestic installations are not rocket science, try it in France where three phase is not unusual in domestic properties, when a French property domestic or otherwise is put on the market for sale or rent a full electrical inspection has to be carried out and lodged with the sellers legal representative for inclusion in the sale/rental documentation, this is just one of the legal requirements for inspections.

Dream a little dream with me.

 

[Pete999]

At least someone here has a decent perspective on all of this, I can't believe how pompous some of you chaps are, domestic installations are not rocket science, try it in France where three phase is not unusual in domestic properties, when a French property domestic or otherwise is put on the market for sale or rent a full electrical inspection has to be carried out and lodged with the sellers legal representative for inclusion in the sale/rental documentation, this is just one of the legal requirements for inspections.

Dream a little dream with me.

The French rely on RCD protection for everything, not saying that's a bad thing, but remember we aint in France

 

[Midwest]

They also eat frogs legs, which quite frankly is disgusting.

 

[Simonslimline]

At least someone here has a decent perspective on all of this, I can't believe how pompous some of you chaps are, domestic installations are not rocket science, try it in France where three phase is not unusual in domestic properties, when a French property domestic or otherwise is put on the market for sale or rent a full electrical inspection has to be carried out and lodged with the sellers legal representative for inclusion in the sale/rental documentation, this is just one of the legal requirements for inspections.

Dream a little dream with me.

Why would that complicate matters?

 

[Mike Johnson]

The French rely on RCD protection for everything, not saying that's a bad thing, but remember we aint in France

It says "Electricians Forum" at the top, makes no reference to country.