Part P training . It must be stopped

[Gary Soulsby]

As most of you are aware part p was introduced in 2005. This has lead to a huge surge in people becoming part p registered installers. This is not the issue although anyone who works on electrical installations should have "sufficient" knowledge and training as to minimise risk.

The approved appretiship does this as anyone wanting to become qualified has to obtain level 2&3 technical cert and level 3 NVQ as well as sit the AM2 test.

Currently company's are offering training to become an approved domestic installer in 5 DAYS!!
That isn't even enough time to get someone entirely used to useing the regs book never mind classified as "competent"

In the end of the day these people are taking the easy option, of which I understand but that should not come at the price of safety and the loss of work of approved electricians that have spent 3-5 years training.

Find attacked the link to a petition stop the training of these under qualified "electricians"

Petition: Scrap Part P, someone with 5 days experience is not safe to work on electrics - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/207481/sponsors/new?token=xUnMdAVdRq7xSzVHb68h

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So the Part P qualification would not allow a Plumber or Kitchen fitter to join a CPS scheme and then be able to notify their work?

 

[Midwest]

So the Part P qualification would not allow a Plumber or Kitchen fitter to join a CPS scheme and then be able to notify their work?

Not without some sort of 'electrical' qualification. The 2393 is an informative course, and doesn't qualify the student in anything.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So a pointless qualification then.

 

[Pete999]

Does obtaining this ‘Part P qualfication’ allow someone to join one of the CPS schemes, if they have no other electrical qualifications?

I suppose it's what the brown envelope is filled with, as you can guess I have little to no faith in the scams, I do however realise you do need them to operate your busines.

 

[Midwest]

So a pointless qualification then.

I did one, and gave my views in #53, but I'm guessing you already know that.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I did one, and gave my views in #53, but I'm guessing you already know that.

You’re a qualified Electrician, as such it should be a given that your electrical work will be safe and comply with relevant standards.
I thought all this Part P malarkey was for Plumbers and other trades who might need to do minor electrical works in the normal course of their work.
That this Part P qualification, was to show that they can install a boiler spur, connect up a shower or add a few kitchen sockets, safely.

 

[Midwest]

You’re a qualified Electrician, as such it should be a given that your electrical work will be safe and comply with relevant standards.
I thought all this Part P malarkey was for Plumbers and other trades who might need to do minor electrical works in the normal course of their work.
That this Part P qualification, was to show that they can install a boiler spur, connect up a shower or add a few kitchen sockets, safely.

The 2393 doesn't give any instruction or guidance on how to do these things?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hmmm, the Poll is about discontinuing Part P training.
To my mind training non-electricians to work safely is a good idea.
However, if it’s just about training them to pass a pointless qualification, sounds more like fraud than anything else.

 

[Midwest]

Hmmm, the Poll is about discontinuing Part P training.
To my mind training non-electricians to work safely is a good idea.
However, if it’s just about training them to pass a pointless qualification, sounds more like fraud than anything else.

I think we are at crossed purposes.

The Poll by the OP had mentioned 'Part P Training' packages, which I question in #2, i.e. there are no such training packages called as such, that would turn someone into a competent electrician. There are other short course training packages, that suggest you can do so. I mentioned this, as I thought it quite important that he gets his petition technically correct.

The only course I could find called a 'Part P Training' course, was similar to this;
Part P training courses for Domestic Electrical Installation - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/courses/part-p-domestic-installers-course, which is or are a familiarisation of Part P Building Regs, based on C&G 2393-10, which instigated discussions on that particular course, as opposed to the poll/thread.

I believe the OP, has since altered his petition title, to remove that ambiguity, albeit the thread title remains the same, as the OP clarifies the reasons in #4.

'Confusing, isn't it, Dutchy?'

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Reading Jurassicsparks thread there are clearly people who still think part P is a qualification.

 

[Dave Rudderham]

I don't think recognised apprenticeships should be the only way to become an electrician. Those of us who didn't get the opportunity of an electrical apprenticeship when younger and who are retraining in later life would never be classed as an electrician under your idea regardless of how experienced we are.

An end to 5 week (or less) courses, I do agree. I'm currently 3 months into a Level 3 Electrical Installation course, because of previous experience, I've completed all the years practical assessments in those 3 months, that includes assisting other students and helping the technician sort out the store room. I'm also that far ahead of the other students theory wise through previous experience that I am being allowed to pick my own exam dates and am more or less exempt from attending the theory classes.
I believe that the absolute minimum should be a Level 2 and 3 certificate from a college, there is nothing wrong with domestic installer certification under these circumstances. It's what I'm looking at eventually. What there could be is a provision that the certification scheme insist on several assessment throughout the first 12 months to verify your competence rather than a single one and "see you next year" I know I would have no objection to that.

The main reason I frequent these forums and facebook groups is to gain information the text books and my own experience does not possess.

 

[Capra]

There are 3 types of people who go on the 5 week DI courses.
1. People with Zero Experience that think they'll become a spark and make a ton of money.
2. People from an allied trade that want to be able notify eg.. Gas fitter, Builder
3. People with plenty of electrical installation experience that did not do an NVQ./ Apprenticeship.

Unfortunately, it's the folk from group 1 who are getting rinsed. They will leave their 5 week course and will not be employable, let alone be able to set up their own business. Why?? Because the only practical work they will do is wire up a CU, several sockets, battern lamps and a cooker point - then carry out Initial Verification (and get results that won't raise any questions) - all on a "pod" wall measuring 1 square meter.
What they won't do, is use any power tools, lift floorboards, drill joists or run cable etc... So they won't have a clue.
This is where these companies are being naughty - and really letting themselves down.

Now, for people from groups 2 and 3 - they're good. I know - because I used one of these companies. (I'm not going to say which one, nor am I going into my personal history - but I'm competent in what I do) The instructors were all time served qualified electricians. They had genuinely had the students success (and safety) at heart. One of my instructors admitted that he shared my concern over his employers selling these courses to people that haven't even wired up a plug in their life, or used a power tool. (That is actually a real example from my course)

These courses DO teach you well from a regulatory point of view - but without bonding that to practical experience - most successful students won't be any good in the real world - obviously.

So anyway - please don't tar PartP installers with the same brush - I've been house bashing for years, I know what I'm doing - I know my limitations - and I still ask questions. I know and work with plenty of time served sparks.

I did the Part P course so that, along with my practical experience, I could prove my competency, sign off my own work and of course: make more money. I make no apology for that.
I don't have time, or the desire to do a full NVQ at my age and I only intend to work on Domestic under my banner. The DI is the obvious route.

If some people are abusing it - that's a shame.

 

[bailes1992]

I'm a qualified electrician who completed a 4 year apprenticeship and went on to do a HNC in Building Services Engineering. I'm also a very competent tester, but have yet to do my inspection and testing.
My Father is a qualified electrician who did an appreticeship and also has his inspection and testing.

We both work for industrial/commercial electrical companies. We are both project managers and not on the tools.


Next year I'll be turning the garage of my new house into a workshop, this includes installing a larger supply.

My Father is building a new garage at my parents house. Again, this involves installing a larger supply.

By all accounts both my Father and myself will have to pay to get planning permission for the works, do the job ourselves and pay somebody who could quite easily be less qualified to sign the work off!

It's utter lunacy.

 

[Pete999]

They

I'm a qualified electrician who completed a 4 year apprenticeship and went on to do a HNC in Building Services Engineering. I'm also a very competent tester, but have yet to do my inspection and testing.
My Father is a qualified electrician who did an appreticeship and also has his inspection and testing.

We both work for industrial/commercial electrical companies. We are both project managers and not on the tools.


Next year I'll be turning the garage of my new house into a workshop, this includes installing a larger supply.

My Father is building a new garage at my parents house. Again, this involves installing a larger supply.

By all accounts both my Father and myself will have to pay to get planning permission for the works, do the job ourselves and pay somebody who could quite easily be less qualified to sign the work off!

It's utter lunacy.

May be more experienced than you or your Dad though bailes 1992, qualifications aren't the B all and end all.

 

[Toneyz]

Not without some sort of 'electrical' qualification. The 2393 is an informative course, and doesn't qualify the student in anything.

Well done Midwest summed it up totally.