Part P

[Guest77]

It is a Building regulation, thats right a Building regulation, not a Electrical qualification. If you read it (you can download it on-line) then you will see that some works, and only some as it is getting less now needs to be notified to the local building control. Now there is nothing to suggest an Electrician need notify the local building control authority, nothing at all anywhere, this is a myth, and a myth we are all getting fed up with. The customer is duty bound to do this just like if they decided to have a loft conversion or indeed a extension on their home. To be competitive some electricians join a scheme so they can notify for the customer on their behalf and the fees are usually a couple of quid instead of the 2-300 the local authority would charge the customer if an Electrician didn't do it for them, this way the customer gets to save some money and the Electrician wins work. The schemes have a policy which they suggest if they get people to join them they will guarentee to the local authority the people they approve are competant, for this privilage they take 400-500 off these people, usually Electricians, but some Plumbers and Kitchen Fitters join as well, The local authority building control then accepts the fact the people on these schemes are competant and do not go out to site to inspect the works, this is why the cost is just an administrative one at a few quid and not hundreds. If you are a competant Electrician for example with a Gold card and plenty of experience why do you need to pay a scheme hundreds of pounds a year to have them tell the Local authority you are competant? If you are Competant then get stuck in and start work. If the work you do does need to be notified then you can ask the customer to do it or include an extra couple of hundred on top of your quote for you to do it. There is no judge in the whole of the UK who will find you guilty of anything wrong doing if you carry out work to BS7671 correctly without being a member of a scheme, we don't need them do we? so why are we paying them 500 a year? I can confirm I no longer pay them, I have left the NICEIC, I am competant, I have over 30 years experience, I will not give them 500 quid to tell someone else I am competant.


Please do not keep going on about being part p qualified, it is all Rollocks, rant over.

 

[trev]

I'm in full support of what you said CPRFENOM, and the opinion of GavinA. Part P of the Buildings Regulations is a document which is upheld by law.

Therein lies the problem, it is not upheld by law. It is largely ignored by the people who are supposed to uphold it, if we were seeing prosecutions of incompetent people who are badged up by the r£gulatory bodies then maybe the rank and file electricians would get behind it because it would be driving the incompetent out of the trade. Instead we see threads started on here almost weekly with pictures that strike terror into the heart of most of us.
The schemes themselves don't appear to care because they'll do nothing (unless you're using their logo without having paid for the privilege) and when asked to explain themselves they hide behind the data protection act and the local authorities don't have the resources, knowledge or inclination to do anything.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Therein lies the problem, it is not upheld by law. It is largely ignored by the people who are supposed to uphold it, if we were seeing prosecutions of incompetent people who are badged up by the r£gulatory bodies then maybe the rank and file electricians would get behind it because it would be driving the incompetent out of the trade. Instead we see threads started on here almost weekly with pictures that strike terror into the heart of most of us.
The schemes themselves don't appear to care because they'll do nothing (unless you're using their logo without having paid for the privilege) and when asked to explain themselves they hide behind the data protection act and the local authorities don't have the resources, knowledge or inclination to do anything.

I completely see your point and agree with you.

Personally, I think it's great they have a competency scheme going but yes, it should be regulated properly like the Gas Safe Register is as they are both killers in their own right.

To the OP, maybe instead of lobbying to get the scheme shut down, you could lobby to make sure it's actually regulated properly and the have-a-go-sparkys who put peoples lives at risk are actually brought up on their shockingly bad work.

 

[trev]

I completely see your point and agree with you.

Personally, I think it's great they have a competency scheme going but yes, it should be regulated properly like the Gas Safe Register is as they are both killers in their own right.

To the OP, maybe instead of lobbying to get the scheme shut down, you could lobby to make sure it's actually regulated properly and the have-a-go-sparkys who put peoples lives at risk are actually brought up on their shockingly bad work.

Sorry Jay but the schemes and the government have had a chance to put their houses in order. What is now needed is a proper regulator with long pointy teeth and the ability to use them. The only way we are going to get that is by the existing shower being put out of business.
How do we do that? By boycotting them.
I've said it a thousand times on here but nothing ever got changed by people quietly accepting the status quo and moaning about it.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Sorry Jay but the schemes and the government have had a chance to put their houses in order. What is now needed is a proper regulator with long pointy teeth and the ability to use them. The only way we are going to get that is by the existing shower being put out of business.
How do we do that? By boycotting them.
I've said it a thousand times on here but nothing ever got changed by people quietly accepting the status quo and moaning about it.

But to boycott is to break the law. Is everyone really prepared not to work while you go through the process of taking this to the courts. Because if you continue to work, contravening the regulations, no court will even hear your plea as you can't abide by the regulations you are trying to get enforced.

Anyway, I fully appreciate where you're coming from and agree that it needs to be regulated by whichever body will actually DO something with it.

In the meantime, I'll start my search for a sparky to shadow to get some experience (I don't suppose you live in London do you and fancy a newbie one day a week? haha)

 

[trev]

Sorry mate I'm in the north east.
Boycotting the schemes is not breaking the law, not notifying a notifiable job is BUT suppose I go into your home and rewire it. Everything is compliant with the regs (remember they are a minimum standard)and well within the parameters.

Which court in the country is going to punish me for leaving your home in a better electrical condition than it was before I arrived?

No I'm not prepared to not work while someone challenges this in the courts because most of what I do is commercial and because of this stupidity the electricilty used in a commercial environment is less hazardous that the stuff I'm using to power my laptop at home now (sounds bloody ridiculous doesn't it) but as I say, we can either accept the situation as it is and put up with all the chancers that we have in increasing numbers infecting the trade and lowering standards or we can fight for what it should be.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Sorry mate I'm in the north east.
Boycotting the schemes is not breaking the law, not notifying a notifiable job is BUT suppose I go into your home and rewire it. Everything is compliant with the regs (remember they are a minimum standard)and well within the parameters.

Which court in the country is going to punish me for leaving your home in a better electrical condition than it was before I arrived?

No I'm not prepared to not work while someone challenges this in the courts because most of what I do is commercial and because of this stupidity the electricilty used in a commercial environment is less hazardous that the stuff I'm using to power my laptop at home now (sounds bloody ridiculous doesn't it) but as I say, we can either accept the situation as it is and put up with all the chancers that we have in increasing numbers infecting the trade and lowering standards or we can fight for what it should be.

I hear you.

I'm just gonna do my best to be the best. If I feel out of my depth with a job, I simply won't do it.

 

[trev]

Jay, you're probably clever enough to know when you're out of your depth (sorry mate but after only 15 posts there's no way of knowing so please don't take that as a dig at you) but there's shedloads out there who have been badged up by that schemes who shouldn't be allowed to wire a plugtop. Take a look at UKSparks' recent post about an install on a listed building carried out by a scheme member, it's an absolute horror story. (I think it was called I won't name and shame (something like that anyway))
Some of the lads went to a trade expo armed with the photos and asked this clown's scheme what they were prepared to do about it. They said they'd only act on a complaint by the customer and hid behind data protection.
That's what has got most of us up in arms about the crap we are fed by these idiots.
Fight The Power!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

But to boycott is to break the law. Is everyone really prepared not to work while you go through the process of taking this to the courts. Because if you continue to work, contravening the regulations, no court will even hear your plea as you can't abide by the regulations you are trying to get enforced.

Anyway, I fully appreciate where you're coming from and agree that it needs to be regulated by whichever body will actually DO something with it.

In the meantime, I'll start my search for a sparky to shadow to get some experience (I don't suppose you live in London do you and fancy a newbie one day a week? haha)

and one of the `cling to part P` club sounds off again....

 

[jaydebruyne]

and one of the `cling to part P` club sounds off again....

haha I'm not really a cling to Part P, I was sold the Part P/17th Ed courses at the same time as I booked my plumbing course and I was reeled in with their BS by them saying it's all I need to be a domestic installer. I'd already paid for it before I found out how worthless it was. So unfortunately I have no choice but to do it with a smile, learn as much as I can and try and shadow someone to gain some experience.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

haha I'm not really a cling to Part P, I was sold the Part P/17th Ed courses at the same time as I booked my plumbing course and I was reeled in with their BS by them saying it's all I need to be a domestic installer. I'd already paid for it before I found out how worthless it was. So unfortunately I have no choice but to do it with a smile, learn as much as I can and try and shadow someone to gain some experience.

Do...or do not....there is no try.

Yoda.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Do...or do not....there is no try.

Yoda.

furry muff! I officially omit the 'try' from that sentence

 

[Guest77]

Oh No, Gasp

 

[jaydebruyne]

Oh No, Gasp

Is that an 'oh no, not another f'ing wannabe sparky' gasp? Haha

 

[GMES]

Well Well Well, What's been going on here then!!!!

 

[trev]

Mike you can't say that any more, it's an acronym for government approved scheme provider apparently.
May I suggest AARGH or WHAT! or Sheesh! maybe you have other ideas of your own