PAT flex outlets feeding wall heater

[telectrix]

it's an appliance. not part of the fixed wiring. and as such is subject to the COP for what is incorrectly called PAT testing. if the guys are not competent to work on fixed appliances, then they should re-train as call centre staff.

 

[ste77]

If the water heater had a plug top then id say they are free to test it, but if it involved opening up the fused spur, then in order to work on it safely they'd need to isolate circuits etc i could see problems created

 

[telectrix]

what has become of electricians who can't disconnect and reconnect the outgoing side of a FCU with the switch off and the fuse removed. pansies is the word that springs to mind.

 

[ste77]

what has become of electricians who can't disconnect and reconnect the outgoing side of a FCU with the switch off and the fuse removed. pansies is the word that springs to mind.

I agree but there are electricians who PAT test and can do as youve mentioned very competently, but also PAT testers who know diddely squat about electrics, when i sat my PAT exam years ago there were 2 women receptionists who had been sent on the course as they were duty holders for the building, cant imagine one of them wanting to mess around with anything without a plug on it.

 

[hubsy]

true, but fixed appliances are in the 4th edition COP.

 

[ste77]

Its strange how they class a "fixed" appliance as part of a "portable" appliance test. Surely if its fixed its not portable. Im just glad PAT isnt in my remit at work.

 

[telectrix]

that says it all. as i said before, training monkeys to PAT test is just another dumbing down of our trade. a bit like calling yourself a plumber if all you can fit is push fit plastic and can't solder a copper pipe joint.

 

[oldtimer]

your bosses are maybe correct, there are a lot of pat testers without any electrical qualifications, so wouldnt be classed as competent to be disconnecting and reconnecting items to test them. A wall mounted heater in my opinion would always come under fixed testing as its permanently connected to a supply.

This is the case because when they did the review this was highlighted by the college lecturer when I asked for clarification on fixed equipment and he said let me make this clear fixed appliances are included with ISI&TEE formally PAT and should not be included with fixed wiring plus guy who is a qualified PAT tester only cannot open up a FCU to test the appliance because he or she is not competent or insured . So how do you get around it I said and he replied you dont but if you are a big PAT company you will have to get your inhouse spark to test the fixed appliances or if you have a major contract with a housing association then they have been advised that the electrician can pick up the fixed appliance when doing the EICR but it is a seperate test. He also said thats why fixed appliances have been ignored as PAT companies are saying if it aint got a plug on it and is wired directlt to the fixed wiring then it gets checked out under fixed wiring I&T which is a lot of tosh plus things like cookers,wall fans ,storage heaters, even burglar alarms comes under ISI&TEE and we can no longer turn a blind eye to this

 

[telectrix]

irrespective of whether they are on a plug or wired into a FCU, they are still portable in that they can be disconnected and moved. they are not part of the fixed wiring installation

 

[hubsy]

totally correct oldtimer.

I was taught how to correctly check fixed appliances over 10 years ago, when I originally passed the then PAT course.

 

[oldtimer]

Its strange how they class a "fixed" appliance as part of a "portable" appliance test. Surely if its fixed its not portable. Im just glad PAT isnt in my remit at work.

You are falling into the same trap a lot of guys do as the term PAT sounded good only problem was it was misleading and as its been said testing falls into 2 sections fixed wiring I&T and appliances ISI&TEE and thats it plus it did not help that the Scheme providers ignored this when selling courses as they well knew this would cause a problem so if you are PAT qualified only you are not competent or insured

 

[Engineer54]

I can't see how these so-called bosses can redefine a ''Code of Practice'' to suit their own companies failure to train it's operatives!!

It also defies comprehension, of employing a company to fulfil a companies/customers PAT testing (or whatever they are called these day's) insurance needs, if they are only going to undertake a part of the job!! Does that mean they will have to employ another company to test all these wall mounted FCU supplied heaters?? Words just defy me sometimes, with some of the crap i read on here!! lol!!

 

[oldtimer]

Yes it does mean they will have to get a electrician to test the fixed equipment hence why they dont want to get involved as the lecturer said to me its one big headache because someone trained specifically in PAT can only test that ie portable equipment but fixed applianced did not just spring up they have always been there its just that the PAT companies have what I would say as dingied it hence the myth that "If its got a plug on it we test it if not it comes under fixed wiring"

I asked why cant you train the PAT guys to safely isolate the FCU so they can test it and it was a definate NO it aint going to happen because of legalities and insurance. So whats the big deal I said fixed appliances just get missed out and he replied because the insurance companies are asking why they are not getting tested. Talking to someone with a PAT company they said fine we will hire a spark to do them and then put the charge on to the companies. In my view its a mess because they dumbed it down to non skilled job and then allowed the PAT companies to write the rules.

PS the reason why I was speaking to a lecturer was I had to sign up to a nightclass for ISI&TEE because one of the letting agents said we will need to see your qualifications I said I am an approved spark who told you this and she replied the PAT testing company said you were not legal if you did not have a C&G another urban myth

 

[Engineer54]

Yes it does mean they will have to get a electrician to test the fixed equipment hence why they dont want to get involved as the lecturer said to me its one big headache because someone trained specifically in PAT can only test that ie portable equipment but fixed applianced did not just spring up they have always been there its just that the PAT companies have what I would say as dingied it hence the myth that "If its got a plug on it we test it if not it comes under fixed wiring"

I asked why cant you train the PAT guys to safely isolate the FCU so they can test it and it was a definate NO it aint going to happen because of legalities and insurance. So whats the big deal I said fixed appliances just get missed out and he replied because the insurance companies are asking why they are not getting tested. Talking to someone with a PAT company they said fine we will hire a spark to do them and then put the charge on to the companies. In my view its a mess because they dumbed it down to non skilled job and then allowed the PAT companies to write the rules.

PS the reason why I was speaking to a lecturer was I had to sign up to a nightclass for ISI&TEE because one of the letting agents said we will need to see your qualifications I said I am an approved spark who told you this and she replied the PAT testing company said you were not legal if you did not have a C&G another urban myth

So why is the PAT testing C&G Qualification, rated as a level 3 electrical qualification!! Bloody farce all round!!

 

[hubsy]

I'd like to swear and let off steam,

going for a pint or two or three.....