pir questions

[dochisholm]

ok my first pir is going ok. COuple of questions to finish ot up firstly there was no earth at a metal light in the lounge as it was twin with no earth replaced for insulated pendant ok for a code 4 now?. The downlights in the upstairs hall are class 2 rated with no earth running to them on twin cable code 4?. finally in writing up my report i have put testing or only accesbile sockets. This incorporates drops to appliances under worktops is this an acceptable term for limitation or should i clarify also any sockets i could not access due to furniture e.t.c

 

[sjm]

start a new thread mate, please dont hijack this one
'peace'

I hate to do this but I think he originated this thread and we hijacked it.

 

[Guest 004]

Fair enough.
Perhaps the report was only satisfactory based on a prior arrangement/works order to rectify all code 2's and you weren't made aware of this.

possibly, but it does not change the fact that a satisfactory report was issued with code 2's.
think we need input from an QS or indeed someone from NICEIC, because indeed I need to clear on this fact!

 

[Guest 004]

ahh, time for some stella, and chill

peace people, it has been enjoyable, and indeed enlightening

and I look forward to further discussions

 

[telectrix]

how can an installation be deemed as satisfactory when it has code 2's. requires improvement. i.e. improvements must be made. it's like passing a car for MOT when the brakes are inefficient and reqiure improvement.

 

[sjm]

i am confused as to why it is a code 2 it doesnt require improvement if there is only class 2 equipment used and a warning label affixed to the cu

Code 2 does require improvement.
However IMO a lighting circuit without cpc's that only uses class 2 fittings doesn't present a potential danger because the fittings do not require an earth. If a warning label is present at the CU to this effect then nobody should fit unearthed class 1 fittings.
Therefore IMHO this situation could be given a code 4 and therefore satisfactory.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Code 2 does require improvement.
However IMO a lighting circuit without cpc's that only uses class 2 fittings doesn't present a potential danger because the fittings do not require an earth. If a warning label is present at the CU to this effect then nobody should fit unearthed class 1 fittings.
Therefore IMHO this situation could be given a code 4 and therefore satisfactory.

That's fine.

 

[dochisholm]

thats right enigma

 

[Graeme Harrold]

This is the downside of wooly regs where words like "should", "may", "competent" create the fuzzy gray area, and only by sharing in an open forum can some sensibility be applied. Code 2's highlight shortfalls in the safety/integrity of the installation and as such could not warrant a satisfactory grade. On a PIR I dont see a place for a code 3, as that is why you are there.....?

WIth regards to the OP, I would have coded it as a "2", given it unsatisfactory and stickered the CU. I then compile a covering letter and an estimate for the remedial work and re-issue the cert once I am happy with the safety of the install. After all its down to the inspector to make the jugement call on the continued safety of the installation.

I dont tend to do any rectification during a PIR without consulting the owner as additional payment usually needs to be discussed. However the OP did rectify the shorfall in the earthing system by fitting Class 2 fittings and would also agree on the code 4..........

 

[dochisholm]

and thank you iq and sjm you have "eventually" confirmed what i wanted lol

 

[IQ Electrical]

and thank you iq and sjm you have "eventually" confirmed what i wanted lol

Ah we took you the scenic route!

 

[dochisholm]

graeme why would you give it a 2 i agree with what the others are saying if its class 2 equipment and labelled at the bored it isnt a danger so why would it require improvement. I read it as you are making a test on the property at the time of testing if someone chnages the fitting i have covered myslef in my report saying sticker has been put in place and class 2 equipment is fitted

 

[IQ Electrical]

OK to conclude, I issued a 100 page report that had code 2's, and was issued as satisfactory, and this was accepted by the client, and indeed was signed off by my QS, who to be honest is very by the book. As said before I am just the doer! they are the engineers!

The problem is that it is your report and as the competent person, you decide on the assessment based on current available guidance.

 

[Guest 004]

The problem is that it is your report and as the competent person, you decide on the assessment based on current available guidance.

yep indeed

 

[Graeme Harrold]

graeme why would you give it a 2 i agree with what the others are saying if its class 2 equipment and labelled at the bored it isnt a danger so why would it require improvement. I read it as you are making a test on the property at the time of testing if someone chnages the fitting i have covered myslef in my report saying sticker has been put in place and class 2 equipment is fitted

I would have coded the install as I found it, therefore code 2 as I dont tend to rectify as I inspect, unless something that would be a monumental danger. I usually blitz through an installation in inspect mode, then look at what needs doing. You covered this as you went along by replacing the class 1 fitting with a safer class 2, therefore making it a code 4.....

 

[nickblake]

I did a pir a few weeks ago mainly code 2 couple of code 1's that were rectified whilst on site i had almost the same scenario No CPC to metal clad light fittings ,the report i gave was unsatisfactory due to the light fittings etc , i spoke to the owner of the property and they told me that im to do the remidial works fine still isued the unsatisfactory report ,because there was a potential danger and it required improving , im sorry and im not having ago at any one ,engineer or no engineers , the report is unsatisfactory due to ther being defects ,even if they had sent an order for rectifying the work , you issue the satisfactory cert they could turn round and cancel the job ,you have then issued a report for a potentially unsafe installation

i repeat im not having a go but its an observation