Plastering directly over T&E

[tedglen2]

Hello all.

I have goggled filling T&E with plaster and there are a lot of responses saying plaster will corrode the cable?

Is this just a myth? Will I be ok to just clip the cables then plaster over myself!

 

[1shortcircuit]

I agree, there will be instances where there is minimal risk. However, I like the reassurance that what I have carried out is all correct and in order. I would be so embarrassed if it turned out there was a fault that I was to blame for. It wouldn't look very professional so for the amount of time it takes I am happy to continue as I do

The same said for alterations to existing circuits, I always test before I commence work to ensure that there are no existing faults that I could get the blame for. Any faults that are found on the initial test are rectified before I carry out my alterations/additions and then I test my own work again afterwards to ensure that what I have done has not impaired the integrity of the circuit in any way shape or form.

Confidence is one thing, reassurance through the proof of testing is another. I didn't fork out hundreds of pounds on a tester to not put it to maximum use

Nice to hear the views of others regarding this

 

[moospark]

P.V.C capping is not deemed mechanical protection under 17th. Personally I think it often looks like a cover up, even of a job well done. Rather see a bit of good honest, neat and tidy clipped direct, any day.

 

[Guest55]

Recent scientific studies have shown plaster can eat though cable insulation in seconds.
I strongly recommend you leave your wall chases left bare and exposed for all eternity.
God i hope things pick up on the forum tonite.

 

[Dave 85]

Really?

So you trust that once you've completed your first fix everything is spot on? How do you know that? Do you not make mistakes? If you mean do I put nails straight through my cables when fixing capping then no. Never. I do not burn cables either whilst pulling through joists. The only IR test failures I have ever experienced on new work are due to wires pinned or nicked by screwing the faceplate back or cable damage that can quite easily be traced back to a kitchen unit fixing. Any continuity test fails I get are due to me forgetting to put a faceplate on somewhere.

I ALWAYS test for continuity/IR on the circuits I have installed on completion of first fix so that I know 100% when I return any faults have been caused by kitchen fitters or additional works that have taken place since first fix completion.

The use of wago lever connectors make this an absolute doddle and for how long the test take I think it's worth it's weight in gold.

Inspection and testing should be performed before, during and after installation to ensure that the integrity of the circuit has not been compromised. I do testing during and after installation...ie when im putting the CU on after 2nd fix and then live testing once its done. If you're not doing it then it may well come back and bite you on the behind when the client refuses to pay for repair works required that may require ripping out cable that has since been tiled over, plastered or even had kitchen cabinets installed in front of runs. Never caused me any problems so far during my 7 year electrical career. And I've probably saved what? 200+ hours by not first fix testing since I've been self employed, so thats, say £5000 worth of labour already, so if I have to pay a spread £50 to re skim a bit of wall one day, well....its not the end of the world.

Complete waste of time? Yes and it appears im not the only one who thinks so My backside it is but hey... I'm just a Electrical Trainee so what do I know??? lol Whats this supposed to mean? are you being serious? or are you suggesting im a Electrical Trainee?

Its been a long day.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Its been a long day.

Ha ha ha, no I am most definitely not implying that you are a Electrical Trainee, that would be most inappropriate as I am not aware of your back ground. I was stating that this is the route I followed to enter the trade albeit working alongside a spark at the time.

Everyone has their own method, I am more than happy with mine and seems you are happy with yours. Whilst I can understand what others say about my method being a waste of time this is the way I work and it is because I am always looking to cover my arse and know 100% that all is sound because at the end of the day we are all human and humans make mistakes fact!

I understand also the point you make about time however the tests take next to no time at all and I have proof on my sheet that I can use should the occasion arise where a fault is discovered and the owner/ kitchen fitter/builder or whoever tries to pull a fast one:thumbsup

 

[Guest55]

Doing insulations tests before final connections are made - is it worth while ?
Of course it bloody is.
bs 7671 testing guidance advises the testing is done during construction
The problem is most posters view scenarios purely from a domestic perspective.
During my stint doing highways power on motorways all cables are tested instantly after being pulled in because the cost of putting out a lane closure to sort out an unchecked problem costs thousands.
Same with large commercial projects - no point waiting till the jobs finished to do all the testing , theres just to much.

 

[Dave 85]

Ha ha ha, no I am most definitely not implying that you are a Electrical Trainee, that would be most inappropriate as I am not aware of your back ground. I was stating that this is the route I followed to enter the trade albeit working alongside a spark at the time.

Everyone has their own method, I am more than happy with mine and seems you are happy with yours. Whilst I can understand what others say about my method being a waste of time this is the way I work and it is because I am always looking to cover my arse and know 100% that all is sound because at the end of the day we are all human and humans make mistakes fact!

I understand also the point you make about time however the tests take next to no time at all and I have proof on my sheet that I can use should the occasion arise where a fault is discovered and the owner/ kitchen fitter/builder or whoever tries to pull a fast one:thumbsup

Cool, sorry about that, there are a couple of guys on here who regularly like to refer to me as a Electrical Trainee. Personally I have no issue with people who have taken this method of training and think that, with the neccesary experience, its perfectly suitable for people doing mainly domestic electrical work. Sorry if my posts come across a little aggresive at times. But seriously, its worthing thinking about which risks are worthing taking and which arn't. It can save you hours.

I've had two occasions where an RFC cable has been screwed by a kitchen fitter and both times I mangaged to locate the fault and replace the cable (via a different route) within an hour or so. No mess, no fuss, no units down. Theres always the last resort option of disconnecting the damaged leg of the ring (if its near the middle of the circuit) and creating 2 20 amp radials instead.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Cool, sorry about that, there are a couple of guys on here who regularly like to refer to me as a Electrical Trainee. Personally I have no issue with people who have taken this method of training and think that, with the neccesary experience, its perfectly suitable for people doing mainly domestic electrical work. Sorry if my posts come across a little aggresive at times. But seriously, its worthing thinking about which risks are worthing taking and which arn't. It can save you hours.

I've had two occasions where an RFC cable has been screwed by a kitchen fitter and both times I mangaged to locate the fault and replace the cable (via a different route) within an hour or so. No mess, no fuss, no units down. Theres always the last resort option of disconnecting the damaged leg of the ring (if its near the middle of the circuit) and creating 2 20 amp radials instead.

The problem with written text is you cannot judge the tone of voice being used in a conversation to evaluate which way of many that it is meant

As mentioned, you are happy. I am happy... together we are all happy I'm certainly not going to argue over it because it's only my name that goes on my certs and my reputation at stake. I am much less experienced than many on here I am sure which is why my method works for me too. Sometimes I get disturbed by clients or telephone calls which "Could" distract me so by testing at this stage I am able to address any fault that may arise due to whatever reason.

:thumbsup

 

[SPARTYKUS]

That oval conduit is better than capping. Ahem.

 

[Guitarist]

I always use oval conduit. Love the protection it offers, along with the fact that it allows for new cables if they ever get damaged.
Had a job a couple of months ago where a new socket was needed and when I checked, the nearest outlet was already a spur. Luckily there was conduit, so converted to part of the RFC.
I've lost count of the number of times I need to make alterations or carry out a rewire and say "thank you" when I find the whole place has conduit installed.

Btw, render affects the cable sheath, plaster doesn't.

 

[Ben Grant]

I'm picking up a general consensus that cables don't need to be in capping or conduit...

May I say I don't like cables being in the wall without "basic protection" yes there is a tick box on the schedule of items inspected on both an Electrical installation certificate and an electrical installation condition report to say that the " basic protection" has been met.

Additional protection to cables buried in thermally insulated walls buried less than 50mm from the surface needs to have "additional protection" by means of an RCD on the circuit. This is not an excuse for not putting oval conduit or capping on or over your cables. Both scenarios need to be met with basic protection by means of oval conduit or capping and then if it is in a thermally insulated wall (chased or dob and dabbed) that it be additionally protected with RCD.

You only get what you pay for, good spark = basic protection and additional protection (guy that has spent some time in school and on site), average joe spark = RCD the lot

Correct me please if im wrong...

 

[Swicade]

Agree with most of what you say there Ben Grant except:

'You only get what you pay for, good spark = basic protection and additional protection (guy that has spent some time in school and on site), average joe spark = RCD the lot'

As stated many (usualy the older hands) still use capping/conduit...it's how we where always taught BUT rules have now made it optional....doesn't make someone an average or bad sparks just because they dont do it the old way does it?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

As above Ben Grant I'm not sure you fully appreciate that the only reason capping is used is to protect cables from a plasterers trowel, where NEEDED !

 

[Des 56]

May I say I don't like cables being in the wall without "basic protection"
​

My cables are usually covered in insulation


​

 

[Plonker 3]

I'm picking up a general consensus that cables don't need to be in capping or conduit...

May I say I don't like cables being in the wall without "basic protection" yes there is a tick box on the schedule of items inspected on both an Electrical installation certificate and an electrical installation condition report to say that the " basic protection" has been met.

Additional protection to cables buried in thermally insulated walls buried less than 50mm from the surface needs to have "additional protection" by means of an RCD on the circuit. This is not an excuse for not putting oval conduit or capping on or over your cables. Both scenarios need to be met with basic protection by means of oval conduit or capping and then if it is in a thermally insulated wall (chased or dob and dabbed) that it be additionally protected with RCD.

You only get what you pay for, good spark = basic protection and additional protection (guy that has spent some time in school and on site), average joe spark = RCD the lot

Correct me please if im wrong...

BS7671 Definitions.

Basic protection= Protection against electric shock under fault-free conditions. So capping has nothing to do with this what so ever.