Plastic amendment 3 CU's

[telectrix]

Have you got a photo?

taken with a metalclad, non-combustible camera. a russian zenit would comply.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I took some photos. Not very good ones though. Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands. I positioned the gland slightly off where I should have which meant had to use a blank next to the main switch. Will remember for next time. Only had one knock out to remove...bit of grommet strip on it and used fire sealant around all cables. Jobs a good un.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Another piccy. One thing I noticed was the space at the bottom of the breakers where busbar goes is a little tight. So a good idea to remove the din rail with MCBs on it to make sure all bus bar connections are sitting properly. Cannot see in enough if the din rail stays put.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I haven't looked at the AM3 metal boards yet - do they provide some way of fire sealing the cable entries or is that left up to the installer to work out?

I notice the the IET seem to be saying that the installer must fire seal cable entries (from Jan next year), which sounds difficult to me, particularly in situations where lots of cables enter the back of the CU.

Out of interest, did you fire seal cable entries / did your board provide some way of sealing rear knock out holes?

I used fire mastic liberally at the knock out. I can see this being an issue where the cables are rear entry through a great big chasm.

 

[Bobster]

I took some photos. Not very good ones though. Used the M40 Wiska sprint glands. I positioned the gland slightly off where I should have which meant had to use a blank next to the main switch. Will remember for next time. Only had one knock out to remove...bit of grommet strip on it and used fire sealant around all cables. Jobs a good un.

View attachment 29041

Is that an insulated butt crimp on solid core I spy?

 

[IzzyS]

I haven't looked at the AM3 metal boards yet - do they provide some way of fire sealing the cable entries or is that left up to the installer to work out?

I notice the the IET seem to be saying that the installer must fire seal cable entries (from Jan next year), which sounds difficult to me, particularly in situations where lots of cables enter the back of the CU.

Out of interest, did you fire seal cable entries / did your board provide some way of sealing rear knock out holes?

The regs don't stipulate that the openings need be fire sealed, IMHO.

This discussion hosted by Mark Coles, the IET technical guru, talks about it, and the conclusion is there is no change to IP ratings, and no requirements for intumescent seals (view from 13m:15s to 15m:00s, if you can be bothered watching it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJvLT7uwO58

 

[Tuttle]

The regs don't stipulate that the openings need be fire sealed, IMHO.

This discussion hosted by Mark Coles, the IET technical guru, talks about it, and the conclusion is there is no change to IP ratings, and no requirements for intumescent seals (view from 13m:15s to 15m:00s, if you can be bothered watching it all)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJvLT7uwO58

I'll have a watch of that later.

I agree that the regs don't say that openings need to be fire sealed, which may be why board manufactures don't seem to have considered this, but this IET Wiring Matters article: http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/55/-files/consumer-units-pdf.cfm?type=pdf (originally posted by Leesparkykent in another thread) says that the installer must seal openings.

I guess that all this confusion will be sorted out by the end of the year :mad2:

 

[IzzyS]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

 

[NDG Elecs]

Is that an insulated butt crimp on solid core I spy?

You spy correctly.

 

[Octopus]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

As clear as mud (as usual for the IET)

When Tony Cable was waffling on at Elex @ Sandown Park he was "stating that all the cable exits would need to be fire rated too"

I suggested it would be easier to fit a mains smoke alarm in the same location - to which he stated it wasn't an option - me thinks it was because they hadn't thought of it.

I could take all this seriously if the internal components and breakers were all made to a higher standard, but they are not so its a metal box around cheap crxp.

 

[Bobster]

You spy correctly.

You know there not really suitable for that right?

 

[NDG Elecs]

You know there not really suitable for that right?

Yes am aware of different views on these. MOD banning them etc etc. The circuit has approx 4 light fittings on it chewing around one and a half amps. I'll take a chance.

 

[GB.Kayak]

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables. See Figure 6.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.

How the hell are we meant to infer that from the actual wording of the regulation?

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i. have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii. be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to this date.

It's wide open for the lawyers to argue about.

It would be much clearer if they had also added
iii) All openings to be sealed against the spread of fire
iv) non-flame propagating wiring must be used
v) smoke and/or heat alarm to be installed in vicinity of the consumer unit
vi) fire extinguisher to be located within easy reach of the consumer unit
vii) original installer to check the connections every month at his/her own expense
viii) stop working in domestic premises and leave it to those with less skill and experience

I do not think that you are supposed to make the inference that you allude to ... I suspect that the final wording of the regulation bears only superficial comparison to the original text. Therefore the first paragraph that you quote is out of step with the original intent behind the regulation.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Fit one of these in every home never catch fire ............might have to reconfigure the downstairs under stairs cupboard a bit like moving the Christmas Decs, the ornament Great aunt Agnes gave them and the Dyson but never catch fire

 

[Harwoodandy]

View attachment 29042

Another piccy. One thing I noticed was the space at the bottom of the breakers where busbar goes is a little tight. So a good idea to remove the din rail with MCBs on it to make sure all bus bar connections are sitting properly. Cannot see in enough if the din rail stays put.

Hello mate, The CU you have used would not be compliant. Needs non combustible cover and blanks see here for Wylex offering; http://www.electrium.co.uk/Wylex_Metal.pdf