$%*&%@@*+?\ Plumbing

[chris murphy]

I never bothered with those website things and I've never been a fan of plastic pipes since I brought a ceiling down soon after the stuff appeared on the market, but to be fair, it wasn't the pipe that failed - it was the fitting, but since then I have only used it as a sort of Get out of Jail Free" card.

"Hello Geordie Spark",

I will NEVER install anything other than Copper pipe for Domestic Heating and Plumbing [water distribution / circulation] - except obviously for Underfloor Heating installations !

Even then I have turned down some Underfloor Heating Jobs - I just don`t like working wth `Plastic pipe` - almost invariably the Underfloor Heating pipe is damaged somewhere / in several places by `Others` on the Job before the Screed is laid.

Even though it would be pressure tested - `Kinks` / or a Flattening of the Pipe is a `Weak point` on a Heating system because the inside surface will have been damaged !

I have done Underfloor Heating where I returned to the Job on the Day before the Screed was to be laid to check my pipework only to find loads of Damage to my Underfloor Heating pipes !

I then could NOT allow the Screed to be laid the next Day because the pipework was ruined - and this has caused plenty of animosity and delays on those Sites - I have had to completely Re-Pipe some of these Undefloor Heating Circuits and then have problems / arguments about getting paid for it !


I admit that I am `prejudiced` against `Plastic Pipe` as I am a long standing Member of the UK Copper Club - within the UK Copper Board who I am sure You know exists to promote the use of the BEST materials for use in Heating - Plumbing and Gas Installations = COPPER.

They also provide most of the Training Information / detailed Installation methods for Plumbing Apprenticeship Training in the U.K.


Obviously I know that Copper cannot be used for Underfloor Heating Circuits because of Jointing and the prohibitive Cost - but that is the ONLY application where I would use `Plastic pipe` - clipped down securely on the Floor Insulation boards and in continuous lengths with obviously no joints.

I have refused to do many Jobs where `Plastic Pipe` was to be used on the Plumbing and Heating - some of those prospective Clients changed their minds about the Installation when I refused to use the Plastic pipe - and because I had been highly recommended to them they took my refusal as a `Review` of the `2nd Class material` and went with Copper pipework - I then carried out the Installations.

As You know Copper pipe installed correctly and which does not suffer from corrosion would last theoretically for Hundreds of Years - despite the specifications and claims for the various `Plastic pipes` the same cannot be claimed for that Material !

I do realise that people will state that NO Heating or Plumbing system would ever remain for `Hundreds of Years` - but as You know I am just stating the longevity of Copper pipe compared to the relatively `unknown lifespan` / degradation of the Plastic pipes and fittings.


Regards,

Chris

 

[tony mc]

Very interesting Chris I wonder what effect the chemicals added to the heating systems will have on the plastic in the years to come?

 

[chris murphy]

Very interesting Chris I wonder what effect the chemicals added to the heating systems will have on the plastic in the years to come?

"Hello tony mc",


I would not really be worried about the Corrosion Inhibitors - which should be used even with a Full Underfloor Heating system to protect the Boiler - Pump - Zone Valves and Manifold etc. - having any effect on the Heating pipework because they are now formulated to not affect this type of Pipe / Material.

But I am certain that it has not got the `Lifespan` of Copper tube.


The proponents of this Flexible pipe would state that I am comparing situations which would never occur - i.e. that there will never be circumstances where a Central Heating system pipework is expected to last for Decades - they would state that alterations to the Home`s and Systems would mean that `upgrades` would naturally occur and pipework would be replaced before any failure of the Pipework material occurred.

But - I fitted my Home`s Central Heating 28 Years ago and because I have ensured that the Heating system has always had Corrosion Inhibitor - and I have Flushed out the system at least every 5 Years and every time that I have made any alteration to Radiator positions etc. during for example combining the Living Room and Dining Room into one Room - the Copper pipework is as good Today as the Day that it was installed !



I would be certain that if `Plastic pipe` was available for Heating systems in 1985 and I had used it I would have had to replace the entire Heating system pipework YEARS before now.


If my Home`s Heating system is looked after as I have done in the past the Copper pipework will still be as good as the Day that it was installed after 50 Years !


Heating Engineers and Plumbers who `Like` `Plastic pipe` do so because it can be easier to install than ridged lengths of Copper tube - also obviously the Push Fit Fittings are almost `Childs Play` / `Not much skill involved` compared to having actually Bend Copper tube and to clean and Solder joints.


I WILL be perceived as `Old Fashioned` / `Behind the Times` by some readers of these messages - I of course do not agree - the Heating and Plumbing systems that I install use COPPER and Quality Workmanship - and the Pipework WILL last for Decades - Why would You NOT want that ?



To End - a question for All Members:


Who would You like to install your Home`s Central Heating - Me using Copper tube [except for Underfloor Heating Circuits] - or a `Heating Engineer` using `Plastic pipe` and `Push Fit Fittings ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[Thefailsafe2012]

Chris your posts are always a joy to read, all the colours of the rainbow arty:





Ok only 3, but still....

 

[chris murphy]

Chris your posts are always a joy to read, all the colours of the rainbow arty:





Ok only 3, but still....

"Hello Thefailsafe2012",


Thanks for your comments.

Because whatever I write about on here always seems to develop into Hundreds of words - multiple paragraphs - I use the Coloured Text / Paragraphs to TRY and make my Posts seem less `Daunting` to read through - less like the `Block of Text` that they might otherwise appear.

I don`t know if this does work - ? but it would if I came across a similarly laid out LONG Post.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Why is plumbing always a complete and total ball ache? Its taken me 3 bloody hours to replace like for like the shower mixer tap thing in the kitchen, all the bloody fittings were different, endless trips to the merchant for a half inch this and 3 quarter that, female to female whatnots, they speak a completely alien language in the plumbing world. He asked me if was a 3/4, i said i haven't a bloody clue, but i want 2 of them and all i know is the old ones don't fit and they are copper!

Cheers……………Howard

"Hello SirKit Breaker / Howard",


Please accept my apology that I replied to Members comments on your thread to `Vent` about `Plastic pipe`.


Sorry that I cannot be helpful to You regarding the various Fittings that are found within the Plumbing industry - it can be confusing to people who don`t often work on Plumbing unless you can actually take the item that you want to connect to with you to the Plumbers Merchants - which more often than not is impossible.


I hope that You managed to get it sorted out.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

Chris your posts are always a joy to read, all the colours of the rainbow arty:





Ok only 3, but still....

Would you be happier with brown, black, grey, blue and green/yellow?? :joker:

 

[shanky887614]

"Hello SirKit Breaker / Howard",


Please accept my apology that I replied to Members comments on your thread to `Vent` about `Plastic pipe`.


Sorry that I cannot be helpful to You regarding the various Fittings that are found within the Plumbing industry - it can be confusing to people who don`t often work on Plumbing unless you can actually take the item that you want to connect to with you to the Plumbers Merchants - which more often than not is impossible.


I hope that You managed to get it sorted out.


Regards,


Chris

I would have done the simple thing, expanded the copper so you can solder on the right size and its as good as gold (only have to heat it up to remove in future)

 

[chris murphy]

I would have done the simple thing, expanded the copper so you can solder on the right size and its as good as gold (only have to heat it up to remove in future)

"Hello shanky887614",


Could You please let Me know what significance there was in your quoting my message to the OP ?


Also - as You could not possibly know exactly what fittings He was having problems with I am surprised at what You wrote that You would have done.

`Expand the Copper so you can solder on the right size` - are You assuming that He had a problem using 15mm fittings on 1/2" Imperial Copper pipe - ?


Why would He have also been mentioning 3/4" if it was just a matter of connecting 1/2" Imperial to 15mm Copper - ?


I am sure that as He is an Electrician the OP would have been well able to describe what He wanted to connect to - IF it was a situation where the 15mm fittings did not fit old 1/2" Copper that would have been easy to describe to the Plumbers Merchants.



If it was just an Imperial to Metric [1/2" to 15mm] situation I like to think that He would have been advised to use 15mm Compression couplings by the Plumbers Merchant ?

There are 1/2" Imperial to 15mm Metric couplings available - Yorkshire solder ring fittings are the most readily available.


WE do NOT know exactly what fittings He was looking for.


I commented that `I could not be helpful to Him regarding the various fittings found in the Plumbing Industry` - NOT because I don`t know ALL of the Fittings available - but because there was not enough detail in his message about EXACTLY what He was trying to connect - plus my message was long after I would have expected that He had already found what he needed and carried out the connections.


I await your reply with interest.


Regards,


Chris