Poor work - by a 'proper electrcian'

[MBEINST]

i',m on the spice now so if this sounds stupid my apologies

basic qualification to set up on your own should be at least 2391 and X years in the industry.

Self policing is a must. If I ever go out to rectify somebody's work you can be assured that I will be contacting building control if I feel that corners have been cut.

Compared to some of you guys I am relatively new to this TRADE as a sole trader (many years cards in) but I feel that if we can't look after each other and weed out the ****e then there is no hope for us.

 

[i=p/u]

It's like if a taxi driver picks out a non licensed driver, slate the ---- out of them, ring cops.

It's like if a shop is selling cheap smokes, beside shop selling taxed ones., they make the call , but who do we call . Nobody.

No1 cares.

 

[Engineer54]

basic qualification to set up on your own should be at least 2391 and X years in the industry.

Compared to some of you guys I am relatively new to this TRADE as a sole trader (many years cards in) but I feel that if we can't look after each other and weed out the ****e then there is no hope for us.

Nope, the minimum is 2365 level 3 X years. If you then want to add 2394/95 (2391) that's another matter. The core qualification is the key issue, not the add on certificates...

 

[Guitarist]

Though i agree with most of what you have said above, i'm afraid categorising will as it's doing now be de-skilling the industry which is just about the worst thing you can possibly do any industry or trade.

An Electrician should mean exactly that, without any if or buts!! The biggest problem for mature students is time and money if they have families and a mortgage to support. So if they can't or not prepared to do the time on low wages or salaries, then they should choose another trade or profession. In the real world there is unfortunately no fast track way to becoming a qualified electrician....

We see this all the time in here don't we. Guys saying that they will get experience after their 5 week course, then suddenly they've gone it alone and want to know how to test an immersion heater element.

 

[i=p/u]

As e54 says the core qualification and experience .. While gaining it.

 

[MBEINST]

The problem with experience is that it is largely gained by coming across situations, taking advice and resolving them.

In my case I spent 22 years working on shipbourne electrical systems within the RN. I have worked extensively on motors, transformers and weapon systems. I studied 3 years at night school to achieve 2330, 2391, etc. I therefore have years of experience with electrics and have qualified myself to the max.

I then offered my services free of charge to two local electricians so that I could build up some experience of Domestics. Understandably but regretably they didn't want to know. They saw the competition coming and tried to head it off.

Over the last five years I have built up my experience by working within my limits and when dealing with something out of my comfort zone asking questions of those more experienced.

The key to this is being a 'Competent Person' which in my book means someone who knows and understands science of electricity and also knows their limits, is prepared to admit when they are out of their depth and then seek advice. Remember the fool isn't the one who asks the questions but the one who is scared to ask.

I am 100 per cent certain that no one on this forum or in the electrical industry or any other industry was born with the knowledge they have today. Its about helping each other out and learning from each other.

Competition is nothing to be scared of! If you do a good job for a fair price and are professional you will have no problem finding enough business.

What is paramount is that some system must exists to rid our industry of those who do not do a good job either through tardiness or lack of ability. There must also be more public information advertisments on prime time TV to enlighten the general public on the dangerous of electricity and the need to use registered electricians. This should be funded by ELECSA, NAPIT, NICEIC, ETC.

 

[D Skelton]

As I've pointed out on many occasions, registration with a private company ie. Elecsa, NIC etc... is not proof of competence, quite the opposite actually.

Also, competition IS something to fear, especially when the majority of potential customers don't really know what they are buying! They can buy the services of a fully qualified electrician like me or they can buy the services of a 'fully qualified' Electrical Trainee who honestly believes that his Part P EAL is a geniune qualification of some meaning!

I lose the opportunity of work to other sparks all the time, at the same time other sparks lose the oppertunity of work to me. I tender for contracts and win, I tender for contracts and lose, it's part of the game and this doesn't bother me as it's business and 90% of my workload is commercial, where 5WWs tend not to venture. However, what really winds me up is when I carry out an EICR which ends up with a few recommendations on it and the customer ends up paying for some Electrical Trainee to go and carry out the work for half the price because as far as they're concerned there's no difference between us skill wise, we're both electricians in the customers eyes, except the Electrical Trainee is vastly cheaper than me because before he 're-trained' he already paid off his mortgage with his massive redundancy package, or, because he is so new to the industry and has no experience he just wants the custom so is prepared to work virtually for free to poach a few customers and get himself a rep.

Now some may say that this is good business sense? Well, I say it amounts to fraud! If you are prepared to undercut the competition by offering an 'equally good' service when it isn't and use terms like 'qualified' when they're not then this is passing off at best! Fraudsters and charlatans are always the hardest people to compete against because whatever you do, they will always make sure that they are more perfect than you, no matter what it takes to create that false image. The number one reason though why the fraudsters I encounter on a daily basis are so hard to compete against is simple, their fraud has been legitimised by a few other self serving con artisits who manage to keep themselves cosy with a few politicians!

IMHO, the domestic electrical market is all sewn up now, mostly by fraudsters! Who is to blame for this? The Scam schemes, the fast track training providers and whichever plonker dreamed up the idea of introducing the idea of 'self certification' to the wider scope of Part P!

 

[telectrix]

good rant, totally agree. it's getting harder and harder to get work in the domestic sector. just have to convince customers that your work is superior even if costlier.

 

[MBEINST]

Wow! lots of disillusionment.

I won't for one minute put myself in your category experience or knowledge wise. I would suggest that in both respects I am probably where you was after five years in the industry. Over time you have built up your knowledge and your reputation. You have earned the right to be disillusioned but
What's the solution? One of the things you learn in the military is that there is no point griping if you haven't got a solution.

 

[D Skelton]

Wow! lots of disillusionment.

I won't for one minute put myself in your category experience or knowledge wise. I would suggest that in both respects I am probably where you was after five years in the industry. Over time you have built up your knowledge and your reputation. You have earned the right to be disillusioned but
What's the solution? One of the things you learn in the military is that there is no point griping if you haven't got a solution.

I learned the same thing in the Army too, hence why I have taken my fight to the social networks, I have taken my written evidence to the DCLG select committee, I believe I will also be presenting oral evidence in front of the scam schemes and the chair of the current government inquest into the effectiveness of part P, I will be meeting the MD of one of Britains Largest fast track training providers next week to air my views, I have written to countless MPs and done everything in my power to try and get other sparks to turn their backs on the scam schemes and find reasons not to blindly throw money at them and finally, my company in no way supports the current situation hence why new members of the team are stricly vetted in order for me to really gauge their level of knowledge with applications from 5WWs getting torn up immediately and thrown in the bin. I'm not doing as much as I should be or could be I know, but I think it's fair to say that I'm doing my bit

 

[Engineer54]

You're doing a damned sight more than most from what i can see!!

 

[Adam W]

With all the arguments against 5WWs this seems to be the only argument 'for' - "the 5WWs might have rushed through their training in a fraction of the time, but there are time served electricians producing substandard work".
Maybe this electrician had no other option than to do it this way. Maybe he had kids to feed and a mortgage to pay.

 

[MBEINST]

With all the arguments against 5WWs this seems to be the only argument 'for' - "the 5WWs might have rushed through their training in a fraction of the time, but there are time served electricians producing substandard work".
Maybe this electrician had no other option than to do it this way. Maybe he had kids to feed and a mortgage to pay.

Have a look at the pictures and then reconsider your post.

There is no excuse for this shoddy work. If you can't do the job correctly find something else to do!

Mr Skelton,

I take my hat off to you and totally agree that 5 week courses should be banned. Any idiot can screw a few wires together. Understanding the science of what you are doing and why you are doing it is paramount. Conducting tests and interpreting results are crucial.

I admire your stance and although I wouldn't know where to start I would love to help if there is anything that I could do.

 

[Adam W]

Have a look at the pictures and then reconsider your post.

There is no excuse for this shoddy work. If you can't do the job correctly find something else to do!

Mr Skelton,

I take my hat off to you and totally agree that 5 week courses should be banned. Any idiot can screw a few wires together. Understanding the science of what you are doing and why you are doing it is paramount. Conducting tests and interpreting results are crucial.

I admire your stance and although I wouldn't know where to start I would love to help if there is anything that I could do.

No you see that's the argument used for doing Electrical Trainee courses - "I had no other option", "I've got kids to feed and a mortgage to pay". That's not what the customer wants to hear.

 

[MDJ]

After seeing the pictures and reading the OP I would suggest it is not a proper spark. It well may be a man who did get the qualifications but a man who has no morals and therefore a Bum IMO. As for Electrical Trainee some are hardworking guys who continue training after the 5 weeks and do care about what they are doing. The argument around Electrical Trainee is the fact we all know it takes years to know the trade not 5 weeks and therefore we do have a giggle at some who come on here all cocky. However those who choose to keep learning and those who care about doing the Job right have my respect, unfortunately due to poor training it will not be many.

 

[7029 dave]

I myself as many on the forum, are opposed to these fast track course's.There is only 1 way in this industry IMO and it's the long route apprentership etc,but have seen guys with all the quals you can have very academic people but they can't hold a screwdriver the right way no practical know how what so ever!!.The point I am trying to make is if no practical on site experience, then quals don't mean nothing.IMO if you can't access on site experience (firms taken on trainees) then no enrolment of any such course.

 

[MDJ]

I myself as many on the forum, are opposed to these fast track course's.There is only 1 way in this industry IMO and it's the long route apprenterships

I am with you on that dave and Blame Thatcher for the decline in our industry, No need to put my tin hat on either.

 

[7029 dave]

Mike, agreed 100%

 

[telectrix]

nothing to do with unions in the 70's bringing the country to a grinding halt then?

 

[MDJ]

nothing to do with unions in the 70's bringing the country to a grinding halt then?

No, Thatcher was to Blame, her plan has backfired. You only need to look at Germany and the way they do business to see we got it wrong with selling everything off, stopping all manufacturing, the creation of sub contract labour through angencies and buying cheap from abroad. Germany makes everything themselves, they employ thousands upon thousands of apprentices and sells everything which inturn creates work around industry like electrical contracting for starters. They stuck with the method we once had before Thatcher, Major and now Cameron oppose. they will not be happy until the working man has no pension no NHS and no Dignity, I am getting Narked now just thinking about the Tory party. Cheers Tel.

 

[D Skelton]

I am getting Narked now just thinking about the Tory party. Cheers Tel.

Narked?! NARKED?! Bleeding hell, when I think about the Tory party I feel like blowing $hit up! Proper Guy Fawkes styleee! Cameron and Osbourne need stringing up for crimes against humanity! lol

 

[telectrix]

was only seeing if you'd bite, mike. LOL.

 

[Guest55]

I am with you on that dave and Blame Thatcher for the decline in our industry, No need to put my tin hat on either.

youre blaming someone who hasnt been in power for 25 years and is now dead ?

have you any idea how effing ridiculous that sounds ?

i seem to remember the unions pulling the trigger on themselves and that part p was invented by labour.

do you think your own business would be as prosperous as it is now operating under todays free market or alot better under the high tax socialist dogma of the 70's that you think is so great ?

lol , if you want to make it political crack on , i prefer to look where the industries headed rather than how it might be under crackpot state control.

 

[Guest55]

was only seeing if you'd bite, mike. LOL.

no , i did.
;-)

 

[Adam W]

nothing to do with unions in the 70's bringing the country to a grinding halt then?

Nope, far easier to blame the Tories for everything. Especially Thatcher. Greedy Tory toffs, doing it for themselves, rich get richer, poor get poorer. And they want to privatise the NHS.
Socialism is the way forward - free money for everyone.




I was being sarcastic by the way.