Prices????

[SRE]

Just had an email from a customer we've been to who is keen to use us but we're more expensive than another local company who don't provide the same service. I can argue some of the cost on quality etc and we're not expected to price match but these guys appear to be coming in with a 4kwp @ less than 6.5k. Now I'm happy to let him have it at that cost because I can barely cover my costs at that price - where am I going wrong??

 

[Eco Deal]

What panels and inverter are you offering ?
People are fed BULL about crap panels .

I normaly say show me the datasheet or ask them which panels they been quoted NOT PRICES

then If I see they are Pooh pooh I tell them and why backed up with documents

 

[SRE]

We're using Jetion and in most cases Power One with 10 yr warranty for our budget offering and REC/Power One for our mid range. We've sold 3 Sanyo/Panasonic this year too which surprised me. Even if I drop down to HJ I'd only make enough money to cover wages - where's the point in that, it's the road to ruin!

 

[Somecamel]

Prices are 'varying' a bit at the moment-the sad fact is you can always get a little bit more money on a job from some people but with others you know you don't have a chance.

That 15.7p is coming in no doubt now. We're all desperate and installers are cutting prices just to survive. From the other thread the other night, I can easily offer 15% returns.

Days are gone where we 'could' make £4k on each job, Be happy with a Grand and book one a day in.

 

[SRE]

That's the problem - I can't make a grand and sell at 6.5k, I can't cover my costs. I could work for nothing and ignore my overheads and pretend that I'm making money at 6.5k - I'm sure that's what a lot of people are doing. I've never yet made 4k on a job and I've been installing since 2010. Not long but longer than a lot of others.

If I could install one a day @ a grand a piece I'd be delighted but 2 a week @ 6.5k would leave me no better off than 0 jobs a week so why bother?? The difficulty is that those who can't afford to hold out (and I don't blame you if things are getting desperate) are bringing the whole fit fiasco crashing down for everyone.

15% ROI must mean a cut to maybe 10p fit in the near future??

 

[Eco Deal]

I dont think Jetion are much cop are they???

Unless I looked at the wrong ones the other day 270w @ 13% eff ???

I selling around the 12% ROI for customers but looking around the big boys are doing it around 10% ROI which I am consdiering too ?

 

[solarsavings]

I have to quote for a system tomorrow where they have had a quote from a reasonably local company that have offered them an extremely good deal because they have been able to buy two containers of modules below market price. They are passing this saving on to their (lucky) customers. The quote for 4KWp does not mention the module or inverter make and the roof doesn't look able to take 4KWp when viewed on google.

So how to price that job? I would prefer to price for a Bosch system but using something like Canadian Solar seems to give the best hope of winning the job as it would compete with the £6495 advertised on their site.

 

[Somecamel]

That's the problem - I can't make a grand and sell at 6.5k, I can't cover my costs. I could work for nothing and ignore my overheads and pretend that I'm making money at 6.5k - I'm sure that's what a lot of people are doing. I've never yet made 4k on a job and I've been installing since 2010. Not long but longer than a lot of others.

If I could install one a day @ a grand a piece I'd be delighted but 2 a week @ 6.5k would leave me no better off than 0 jobs a week so why bother?? The difficulty is that those who can't afford to hold out (and I don't blame you if things are getting desperate) are bringing the whole fit fiasco crashing down for everyone.

15% ROI must mean a cut to maybe 10p fit in the near future??

I'm too scared to even publish the wholesale price on here but not hard for anyone to find out if they tried.

The FIT is only meant to be here to bring prices down and it's working. For many the 21p will have been a lost opportunity as they are not willing to take the risk given the governments actions.
The 3 monthly digressions are going to be the killer.

I think the only hope now is for electricity prices to keep on rising which will make Solar cost effective without a subsidy which is now happening in Germany, they pay 27cents per Kwh and we're around 17cents.

 

[SRE]

I agree in a funny way the sooner it comes the sooner we'll get some stability.

 

[SRE]

I dont think Jetion are much cop are they???

Unless I looked at the wrong ones the other day 270w @ 13% eff ???

I selling around the 12% ROI for customers but looking around the big boys are doing it around 10% ROI which I am consdiering too ?

Jetion are coming out about 300kwh ish more than Trina, ET, and loads of other similar priced panels on a 4kwp system with pvsol and they've got a slightly longer warranty - not that that makes a massive difference, so as budget panels og they don't seem too bad and are a good price, have all the salt mist and amonia testing that we ask for and can be fixed long and short side. They are also shorter than most (and slightly wider) so our slate roofs with shorter ridge to eave measurements benefit. The only disadvantage looks to be the weight but as long as thats taken into account by the structural engineer then it shouldn't be an issue.

Our ROI is around 9 - 10% with a S facing roof and most of our customers are delighted with that - it's just getting them to understand in the first place that they haven't missed the boat.

It's a tough market but I've decided I'd rather do nothing and make nothing rather than do loads and make nothing - if you see what I mean

 

[SRE]

I have to quote for a system tomorrow where they have had a quote from a reasonably local company that have offered them an extremely good deal because they have been able to buy two containers of modules below market price. They are passing this saving on to their (lucky) customers. The quote for 4KWp does not mention the module or inverter make and the roof doesn't look able to take 4KWp when viewed on google.

So how to price that job? I would prefer to price for a Bosch system but using something like Canadian Solar seems to give the best hope of winning the job as it would compete with the £6495 advertised on their site.

No matter what panel you use if you can't cover your costs and make a bit of profit then is it worth trying to compete with these other guys? You might go and find out they've told the customer a load of rubbish and your credibility will win out - if what they are offering is genuine I'm not sure you're doing yourself any favours unless you can make some money on it.

 

[SolarCity]

Regarding prices, the discussion on the main forum between two forum members about prices is depressing me. Why do people talk wholesale figures on a forum open to the public? It's infuriating.

 

[Gavin A]

jetion offer 2 types of panel, the standard dirt cheap poly panel, and a very good looking 50V 250Wp mono panel with 4 bypass diodes and black black option. I'd suspect it's the 50V module that's gaining the better output figures on PV sol at least partly because systems using it are closer to the optimum efficiency point for the inverters vs eg a 16 panel standard 30V panel system on dual strings on a 4000TL.

 

[SRE]

Yep they are the ones we're quoting for ...

 

[Gavin A]

yeah, I think we're going to add the black black ones to our range of offerings. Only trouble is that they're about 8cm wider than the Hyundais and we've just fitted our van out so that the Hyundais only just fit in with a few mm gap around them.... arse.