Problem this afternoon

[uksparks]

Hi,

Got called to a customer today, background is he has been doing some DIY... he had replaced a load of light fittings and plug sockets, he said we extended this one here and burried it in the wall etc... found one twisted together with tape, no connectors etc... anyway..

The problem is, since yesterday, he said the plugs downstairs don't work... hmmm

I plugged the socket tested in, beep beep beep beep beep, Earth and Live Reverse.... so i go to another, and get the same, then go to another, and its already beeping at me without switching the switch on, its a Fluke socket tester, first two are lit up, then switch it on then its just the first one so suggest Live earth reverse.

I then get the MFT out, plug it in at a socket,

Line to Neutral = 5.5v
Line to Earth = 230v
Neutral to Earth = 230v

Hmm, that's not right...

I pulled off all the face plates down stairs that I could that appears to be on that circuit one at a time thinking ill find the problem, but nope, nothing, all seemed in order (a mess but in the right holes). They said they did not extend or chop any circuits on the plugs, only the lights (they work fine).

Oh its a radial by the way.

So then the lounge, I took the faceplate off, left all conductors hanging (terminated in wagos) turned back on, same problem on sockets, but the ones he had changed were all dead, so im thinking must be somewhere else, put it back together.

Looked at the consumer unit, dual split board, a mess, blatant cowboy who fitted it, everything in the wrong places etc, but anyway, RCD protected. So the circuit was holding fine, as was the RCD.

I put a jumper between Line and Earth and then went round the sockets to get an R1+R2, all seemed pretty much in order, went round everything I could find, all seemed to be ok.

Then hooked Line to Neutral, went round the sockets, not a bloody sausage, nothing, not on any socket anywhere, nothing hooked off the circuit.

Then hooked Neutral to Earth and got a reading on everything.

So then I thought, well everything appears to be in the correct places so what the hells going on... I said it Friday night, I want to go home now thanks, and am going back next Tuesday and have left the circuit off.

My next step is to remove all faceplates on the circuit, so perhaps 15 say, then try to connect one at a time and see what happens.

Has anyone got a better suggestion as ill be honest, im stumped on this, I normally find these things quick and move on, but I spent 2.5 hours then this evening and couldn't work it out.

He assures me he has only changed Faceplates, only 4 of them down stairs in the lounge, you could see they were new. He has not touched anything else on the plug circuit.

 

[Chrisuk]

hmm..
we`ll see...

We certainly will Glenn, we'll see just how deep his pockets are, someone said he's promised to buy X amount of players, don't know if this is true or not

 

[GLENNSPARK]

We certainly will Glenn, we'll see just how deep his pockets are, someone said he's promised to buy X amount of players, don't know if this is true or not

i`l believe it when i sees it..

 

[uksparks]

I'm off round to fix (hopefully) this problem at 10am, ill update you when I get back as to what it was.

 

[Badged01]

Good luck! Look forward to hearing if all the theory spouted out has anything to do with the problem in the end .....

 

[uksparks]

Hi,

Just popped back as need to lift floor board and needed my cutter which I left at home (its ok as its only a few streets away)

I have got the wander lead out, continuity from CU to every socket for line and earth separately, so thats ok

Nothing on the neutral.

So i then go to what I believe to be the first socket on the radial as its the lowest I can find one with any resistance on the line, I then go from that to every other known socket or outlet on the circuit and theres continuity on all three conductors ok.

So then I take that to the boiler which again was fine and thats in the airing cupboard above the stairs, (CU under stairs), continuity is fine, so now I am going to pull the floor board up where there's a junction box on the landing where the boiler is cut into the ring and and go from there to the rest and back to the CU which I guess is the first bit.

I suspect then at this that there's a trapped or broken neutral between the landing floor and the CU which is about 2 meters.

I cannot see anything bad so far, but I will replace the leg and see what happens.

Ill keep you posted.

 

[uksparks]

Well the cable coming out the CU goes up under the floor but disappears and cannot seem to find it, found all the others, but not that sodding cable. Ive got continuity back to this junction box under the floor from all points, but cannot seem to find what feeds the first socket.

Anyone else around Leicester who fancies taking a look? I have definately narrowed it down to the leg that goes from the CU to the first socket, but cannot find the cable anywhere...

I have not charged him for my time today as I have not fixed it.

Any thoughts other than to keep looking?

 

[UNG]

Have you got a tone tester or cable tracer essential kit for this type of job IMO

 

[southsea1201]

Sounds like the client has done more DIY than he's letting on. You need to ask him exactly what he has done besides replacing socket faces....any sign of freshly skimmed walls...WhereTF is that missing cable? Shameful when people call you in and only tell you an edited version of what they've been doing. They should realise that coming clean will make fault finding a lot quicker, and thus cheaper.

 

[uksparks]

I should really buy myself a dead circuit tracer, it would be worth every penny in this case.

I feel he is not letting on, because his mate came round and said there were cables going across this bit where the arch way way that we have refilled and skimmed etc.... I thought hmm, ok so you may have trapped a cable or something.

Ill be buggered if I am going to waste all day looking for it and get paid next to nothing, ill let someone else have a go.

I have asked him repeatedly what he has done, and every time he says something its different and then his mate said yeah there were wires there whilst he says no...

There has been two extensions, two story, it does only appear to be downstairs sockets, excluding the kitchen which is separate.

The issue i have is, the cable comes out the CU, up the wall clipped 2ft, then under the floor, straight forward, but then is just disappears, its like its a WIFI radial. I had various floor boards up and couldnt see anything obvious.

I am not 100% sure if its the leg from the CU to the landing or the Landing to the first socket, as I don't know where the cable goes from the CU as it disappears.

What would you suggest I do? I have tried calling a few local people to ask if anyone else wants a crack but everyone is too busy..

 

[Richard Burns]

Confirm that the cable from the CU goes to the junction box by checking if it is live and switching it off or disconnecting it and checking it is dead or continuity testing from CU to JB input.
Then take a new piece of cable and connect it it from the (MF) JB back to the CU. disconnect faulty cable and label as faulty.
Test the circuit, fill in MEWIC, get paid.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Have got a tone tester or cable tracer essential kit for this type of job IMO

i`v got a tone n amp...and a fusefinder...

and yep...you need em....

 

[jaypp]

just make sure that if you re-wire that leg to 1st socket that there is nothing else inbetween

 

[uksparks]

Thats the issue, the juntion box doesnt seem to go to the CU... bugger it!

I think ill order a tracer tonight!, see my other thread, any views as to which?

 

[nickblake]

any radiators on the wall have a look behind them wouldnt be the first time one's been put over a socket and when they do you can guarentee its the faulty one

 

[uksparks]

Yep checked that, I'm still not convinced it's not where they took an old arch out where a lintel is and buried cables along it.

I don't particularly want to spend any more time on it as have a lot on this week and can't really squeeze it in.

if shy of you are in leicester feel free to have a go.