Pulling live meter tails from isolater switch in consumer unit

[3435hobiton]

Hi, could someone advise me of the safest procedure when pulling live meter tails from the isolator switch at the consumer unit. I know about switching off the main switch to take out the load, but will not be cutting the seal and pulling the fuse from the cut-out. On this occasion I need to pull out the live first... connect to a Henley block and then the neutral and do the same. When reconnecting I will connect the neutral first and then the live. I was wondering if anybody could offer any helpful advise that I may have overlooked.
Regards Paul

 

[baldsparkies]

We are all wrong.
I have rang electrical safety expert Mike Powers.
He said its perfectly acceptable to work on live supplies, does it all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1uvzvSez3Q

 

[Guest55]

lol at that youtube video ^^^ :-D

mike powers ?? i'd rather call austin powers for electrical advice......

 

[Knobhead]

Put that in the DIY section. It may get rid of some of them.

 

[richy3333]

I’m surprised you’ve still got you’ve still got your dangly bits left with a comment like that.

NIC-EIC and the rest of the leaches can’t be used as a benchmark, they’re the ones that have lowered the standards.

Hmm. At least they have standards (regardless of whether you consider them good or bad). Around here I deal with numerous guys with a screwdriver. Dangerous Daves and Rodger the bodgers etc. then there are those that are plumbers too, forget testing! They don't own meters let alone fill in certificates. There's the ex ship engineers that leave the main earth disconnected in a public building and flapping around like a limp dick, the shower that catches fire. Ex physics teachers that think they are sparks. The list goes on. Then there's the LABC that don't police their own schemes. Don't get me started Tony, I'll start to sound like you!

 

[buzzbang]

still do not know why after so many years of this argument of seals and dno fuse going on that for safety of all isolators are not fitted as standard ,if someone is going to steel power they are going to steel power sealing the fuse don`t stop them

 

[Cbelectrics]

For all of those talking about the legality of working live, i am surprised. No where in the regs does it say you can not work live.

What it does say is that you should work dead and only live when unreasonable in all circumstances to work dead, all ppe measures should be used when working live.

So there admittedly is a can of worms as to what constitutes “unreasonable”.

Unreasonable can relate to time/cost/safety. If you have issues safety wise from the meter onwards that are a safety concern, then you are well within your right to work live.

For instance (i have had it before ), some numpty had installed the tails the wrong way round. So everything within the installation was of a reversed polarity. Immediate code 1 for the entire installation. More practical for me to work live and change those tails around at the ccu rather than the risk to the client while waiting for a dno response (council as well so another ball ache entirely time+safety wise).

 

[mainline]

For all of those talking about the legality of working live, i am surprised. No where in the regs does it say you can not work live.

What it does say is that you should work dead and only live when unreasonable in all circumstances to work dead, all ppe measures should be used when working live.

So there admittedly is a can of worms as to what constitutes “unreasonable”.

Unreasonable can relate to time/cost/safety. If you have issues safety wise from the meter onwards that are a safety concern, then you are well within your right to work live.

For instance (i have had it before ), some numpty had installed the tails the wrong way round. So everything within the installation was of a reversed polarity. Immediate code 1 for the entire installation. More practical for me to work live and change those tails around at the ccu rather than the risk to the client while waiting for a dno response (council as well so another ball ache entirely time+safety wise).

Were the tails from the head coloured correctly ?

No isolator fitted ?

If you could have pulled the main fuse, then taking a chance of working live within the consumer unit, I would consider to be unreasonable.

 

[Cbelectrics]

Were the tails from the head coloured correctly ?

No isolator fitted ?

If you could have pulled the main fuse, then taking a chance of working live within the consumer unit, I would consider to be unreasonable.

Not identified, not that identifying them made any difference to the polarity. You would still have the wrong cable in the wrong connection.

No access to the ryefield to pull the fuse.

Trust me i am not advocating working live when you can clearly work dead. Just pointing out in some instances you are allowed to and some consideration should be given to whether you should.

 

[oscar21]

Ah the old cutting the seals thread again.

So you fit the consumer unit, cut the seals and connect the tails.

Then the DNO police turn up, "Have you cut those seals sonny Jim?" Err no, not me guvnor. And that's where it ends.

I seriously doubt they will fish the seals out of the skip and forensically match the cut to your snips, even if they did there is still no evidence you made the cut, and even if there was you have only damaged a 10p seal, what would a judge say to that.

 

[Markyd]

I ring the dno which in my case is the SSE and they say im ok to pull the fuse
and my old boss used to cut the seals pull the fuse and throw the seals out the van window on the way home

 

[nicebutdim]

I ring the dno which in my case is the SSE and they say im ok to pull the fuse
and my old boss used to cut the seals pull the fuse and throw the seals out the van window on the way home

All well and good until the DNO check CCTV and request phone records in order to conduct a forensic search of your route home.

 

[James]

I have been incredibly fortunate,
Any time I have ever needed to work on tails, the seal wasn’t there when I turned up on site.
It must be more common than we think that they fall off.

 

[littlespark]

The seal fairy’s take them away and cash them in for scrap.


This is a 10 year old thread and the rules haven’t changed.

You do not work live if you do not need to.

Reverse polarity is a dangerous occurrence, special circumstance. You would be permitted to pull the fuse and rectify…. But I would photograph the evidence first.

If not able to access the fuses, then isolate the board, lock it off and start contacting whoever controls the meter cupboard to gain that access.

There is no valid reason or excuse to be working live in this day and age.


I will point put, as this is in the public forum, that working live is extremely dangerous.

 

[UNG]

For all of those talking about the legality of working live, i am surprised. No where in the regs does it say you can not work live.

So which regs are you referring too

What it does say is that you should work dead and only live when unreasonable in all circumstances to work dead, all ppe measures should be used when working live.

So there admittedly is a can of worms as to what constitutes “unreasonable”.

Unreasonable can relate to time/cost/safety.

From a health and safety point of view time and cost are not mitigating factors when risk assessing whether you should work live and demonstrates a lack of H&S knowledge when assessing the hazards

If you have issues safety wise from the meter onwards that are a safety concern, then you are well within your right to work live.

There is no right to work live it is a carefully considered and risk assessed decision on the part of the person who is carrying out the work based on their experience and capability

For instance (i have had it before ), some numpty had installed the tails the wrong way round. So everything within the installation was of a reversed polarity. Immediate code 1 for the entire installation. More practical for me to work live and change those tails around at the ccu rather than the risk to the client while waiting for a dno response (council as well so another ball ache entirely time+safety wise).

Not really a good example to use when the installation could have been isolated by pulling the DNO fuse, very few electricians have the appropriate PPE to work live and even less carry it as part of their day to day toolkit just because you have done it many times before only makes for complacency which could result in serious injury

Your profile says you are a trainee electrician which seems at odds with what you are advocating when many well experienced electricians don't like working live due to the respect they have for electricity and what can happen if it goes badly wrong

 

[Risteard]

For all of those talking about the legality of working live, i am surprised. No where in the regs does it say you can not work live.

What it does say is that you should work dead and only live when unreasonable in all circumstances to work dead, all ppe measures should be used when working live.

So there admittedly is a can of worms as to what constitutes “unreasonable”.

Unreasonable can relate to time/cost/safety. If you have issues safety wise from the meter onwards that are a safety concern, then you are well within your right to work live.

For instance (i have had it before ), some numpty had installed the tails the wrong way round. So everything within the installation was of a reversed polarity. Immediate code 1 for the entire installation. More practical for me to work live and change those tails around at the ccu rather than the risk to the client while waiting for a dno response (council as well so another ball ache entirely time+safety wise).

It's not simply a matter of it being unreasonable in all of the circumstances to work dead, it additionally must be reasonable to work at or near it live, and also suitable precautions must be taken. No point in only quoting one of the three absolute requirements in the law for live working.