PV immersion heater proportional control

[Scobo]

I've been reading this and the other immersion threads with great interest but I'm not prepared to pay what they're currently asking for a proportional controller.
I've already fitted a power reducer to our I'm immersion.
It cost me £54 and has cut the power back to around 1kw.
Im considering fitting one of these IMMERSION WATER HEATER CONTROLLER TO USE SURPLUS SOLAR PV POWER | eBay
until a proportional system comes down to a reasonable price.
It's a very basic light activated relay but the sensor has an adjustable threshold so you can set it to activate at roughly the amount of light needed to power the immersion plus base load.
We also have a timer which will come on later in the day to top up the hot water if there hasn't been enough sun.
I realise it won't be as efficient as a proportional unit but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[Scobo]

I've been reading this and the other immersion threads with great interest but I'm not prepared to pay what they're currently asking for a proportional controller.
I've already fitted a power reducer to our I'm immersion.
It cost me £54 and has cut the power back to around 1kw.
Im considering fitting one of these IMMERSION WATER HEATER CONTROLLER TO USE SURPLUS SOLAR PV POWER | eBay
until a proportional system comes down to a reasonable price.
It's a very basic light activated relay but the sensor has an adjustable threshold so you can set it to activate at roughly the amount of light needed to power the immersion plus base load.
We also have a timer which will come on later in the day to top up the hot water if there hasn't been enough sun.
I realise it won't be as efficient as a proportional unit but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

Just ordered one for £25 and will post an update here once it's fitted.

 

[legoman]

I am currently using a switching system to heat my cylinder or anything I choose with excess power from my system. It has been in use for over 2 months with no problems. Since this time my gas boiler (for hot water) has almost been redundant. I copied the idea from another Forum. The parts cost about £15.00 + odds and sods I had lying around at home. The use of a soldering iron is needed(not too hard) There are no mains tie-ins so can be done by the average DIYer.The only thing I would say most people would need to do, is change their immersion for a 1kW one(£35.00). I guess a proportionally controlled system would be better but cannot justify spending £400.00+ Just how long would it take to make a profit on your install. My current supplier Eon, is targeting 1000000 installations to have Smart Meters fitted by March 2014. This may or may not happen but if it does a lot of people will be out of pocket.

 

[Scobo]

I am currently using a switching system to heat my cylinder or anything I choose with excess power from my system. It has been in use for over 2 months with no problems. Since this time my gas boiler (for hot water) has almost been redundant. I copied the idea from another Forum. The parts cost about £15.00 + odds and sods I had lying around at home. The use of a soldering iron is needed(not too hard) There are no mains tie-ins so can be done by the average DIYer.The only thing I would say most people would need to do, is change their immersion for a 1kW one(£35.00). I guess a proportionally controlled system would be better but cannot justify spending £400.00+ Just how long would it take to make a profit on your install. My current supplier Eon, is targeting 1000000 installations to have Smart Meters fitted by March 2014. This may or may not happen but if it does a lot of people will be out of pocket.

Can you give us some more info on the system you're using.

 

[legoman]

I think my system is similar to the one on eBay. Not saying mine is better, but I liked the challenge of putting it together. I have set the house base load at 200w and the immersion to come on at 1200w. The switch set-up detects when the house base load increases(say kettle on) the cuts the supply to the immersion. Your electric meter needs to have a flashing red LED and that is about it.
These are the bits.
Components are:-
Maplins. Light Sensitive Switch Kit with delay @ £6.99
Maplins. Light Sensitive Switch Kit without delay @ £5.99
Maplins. Housing box £1.00. when you spend £10.00. Bargain buy Tub!

eBay SSR N SSR 25A Solid State Relay 3-32V DC 24-380V AC Control | eBay @99p + £1.97 post.

2 x 12v 400mA adapters (had mine but can be bought for £4.50 ish)

Bell wire to run to the sensors

Got pics if required

 

[brian wright22]

We will be installing the Immersun unit for a customer in the next few weeks, have a look at their website for more info: immerSUN :: Use 100% generated free electricity :: A 4eco Product

I have all the info from Immersun except the PRICE but they will not supply an end user.They will either suggest an approved installer(which incurres a 3rd party cost + Device cost) or I can get my own electrcian to open an account and they will supply it this way.Its possible of course there will be a minimum order.Again there is no trade or retail price available from Immersun

 

[Worcester]

Just how long would it take to make a profit on your install. My current supplier Eon, is targeting 1000000 installations to have Smart Meters fitted by March 2014. This may or may not happen but if it does a lot of people will be out of pocket.

2 Things,

1) a) The sepcification for smart metering does not include measuring export
b) The deeemed export is part of the Feed-in Tariff program, unless changed by DECC, it is not at the description of either your supply provider or your fits provider (which can be different)

2) For ROI see here: http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...-immersion-heater-regulator-2.html#post562074

 

[MickF]

The immersun appears to do the right job, the question is at what price? Don't post trade price here, if you know, pop it on the Sunlounge.

The website is a little light, so can anyone tell me how it works?

Is it proportional?

How does it wire in?

For those that like to know, Immersun is a product fron 4Eco Ltd 3 Church View, Business Centre, Binbrook, Lincolnshire, LN8 6BY (the immersun dot co dot uk website is regsitered to them) 4ecoltd dot co dot uk
From duedil, the people at 4Eco are:
Jodi Huggett (37), Director, Company Director, 1 Sep 2010 – Present
Robin Barrett (36), Director, Company Director, 1 Sep 2010 – Present
and
Lee Robert Sutton (35) Director, Company Director, 26 Jan 2007 – Present

From the MCS Website:

4eco were MCS Certified by elecsa on 01/04/2010 for:
Air Source Heat Pumps
Ground Source Heat Pumps
Solar PV and
Solar Thermal

 

[legoman]

You are correct in what you say, but I believe that in the near future, smart meters when installed, will read exact import and export readings, maybe putting an end to the 50% estimated export payment. You would then be paid for the actual amount exported back to the grid. I put my system together for a small amount of money. I enjoyed doing it and, even though it is not the best it is certainly one of the cheapest.

 

[Worcester]

@legoman, the key thing is that at the moment there is no requirement for smart meters to monitor export, some may choose to.

The 50% deemed is laid down in legislation http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/678/pdfs/uksi_20100678_en.pdf

So to change it will require a new order to be laid before Parliament which will require formal consultation.

The manner and method under which the government lost the right to apply retrospective changes to installations (reduction of 43.3p in December) means that I connot see how they could change the measurement methodology to EXISTING installations and remove the deeming %. They would have a consumer revolt on their hands.

So why is it 50% ? Because in most cases it is more than 50% - in practice it is nearer 75% (see Energy Saving Trust about the value of 'FREE' Solar) so they are getting electricity for free! Even 3.2p is below the wholesale price - hence the uplift in export rate to new systems after 1st August.

So 1) it is not in the FIT providers or the Electricty suppliers interest to meter export
2) if they did the FIT payments would go up which means more on the bills of consumers
3) The perception of consumers is that they would be worse off, as anything they use now is 'free' (see comment above about the EST) so they would cause uproar.
4) It would be retrospective legislation and I may be wrong, however I don't think the goverenment would be allowed to do it - whose benefit would it be to anyway? - Those generating, already overpaid in the goverenments eyes ....

 

[Worcester]

From the EST Website
Free solar PV offers / Solar panels (PV) / Generate your own energy / Home (United Kingdom) - Energy Saving Trust

The proportion used in the home may be as low as 25% for a typical PV system, but could be over 40% for some users.* With a typical PV system this would mean likely annual savings of £100 to £180.

* Based on figures from the Suncities Monitoring Data Review (Kirklees Council, 2007), A simple model of domestic PV systems and their integration with building loads (Firth, Boswell and Lomas, 2009) and Micro-CHP Accelerator Final Report (Carbon Trust, 2011).

 

[legoman]

Worcester, I hope you are right re- the 50% staying as is. I have nothing to gain if it changes. I do not know what percentage I'm using now(retired, so I can be in when my solar panels are producing the most power) but, am trying to maximise as much as possible. I feel I am "edging my bets" by using the system I have. I have used another persons ideas/advice and assistance along the way. He has been using it for the last year with no problems. I intend to run mine through the winter months and then decide my next move.
If I could buy a proportionally stepped system for under £100.00 I would be sorely tempted. As I cannot find one, I will stick with what I have.
I tried to post some info about my set-up but could not publish so, for anyone who may be interested I will try again later.
[h=1][/h][h=1][/h]

 

[legoman]

PV immersion heater switch

[h=1][/h]M**lin. Light Sensitive Switch Kit without delay @ £5.99
M**lin. Light Sensitive Switch Kit with delay @£6.99
M**lin. Housing box £1.00. when you spend £10.00. Bargain buy Tub!
SSR 25A-Solid-State-Relay-3-32V-DC-24-380V-AC-Control-/370531973220?@99p + post
2 x 12v 400mA adapters (found 2 at home but can be bought for £5.00 each)
Bell wire

Have pics/info if required

 

[ian]

Have a look at this thread also: http://www.electriciansforums.net/s...ral-heating-linked-monitoring.html#post551986

As far as I WAS aware, the only commercially available proportional control system is the EMMA,

I installed a EMMA SP15/30 a couple of weeks ago, simple to install and seems to be working well.

 

[Scobo]

Re: PV immersion heater switch

M**lin. Light Sensitive Switch Kit without delay @ £5.99
M**lin. Light Sensitive Switch Kit with delay @£6.99
M**lin. Housing box £1.00. when you spend £10.00. Bargain buy Tub!
SSR 25A-Solid-State-Relay-3-32V-DC-24-380V-AC-Control-/370531973220?@99p + post
2 x 12v 400mA adapters (found 2 at home but can be bought for £5.00 each)
Bell wire

Have pics/info if required

That sounds a lot like the controller I just bought .... IMMERSION WATER HEATER CONTROLLER TO USE SURPLUS SOLAR PV POWER | eBay
Cost me £25.
Should have it fitted tomorrow.