PV immersion heater proportional control

[echase]

The Intelligent Immersion i2 was also recently reduced in price to £199 and is now available with enhanced software that gives less export and a better looking but just as robust enclosure www.intelligent-immersion.co.uk

 

[thushar]

http://solarimmersion.co.uk looks like a more professional unit and with the advanced features offered by Solarimmersion ( http://solarimmersion.co.uk ), the £29 more spend is really worth it.

 

[liquidity]

advertising wars!

 

[echase]

advertising wars!

To avoid getting too far into this here I’d say both have their merits depends whether you need a ruggedly built well proven unit or one with a few more features. Contact the firms and compare them.

 

[pmcalli]

http://solarimmersion.co.uk looks like a more professional unit and with the advanced features offered by Solarimmersion ( http://solarimmersion.co.uk ), the £29 more spend is really worth it.

Just done a trial on intelligent immersions latest unit. The unit is well built and survived my very old immersion going short circuit which is impressive. The performance is very good under all house power factor conditions which cannot be said of some rival units. I would be very nervous of solar immersions claims of only 5W export at 800W available as this cannot be achieved under normal power factor variations.

 

[Worcester]

Thushar, EWP and echase are all promoting THEIR OWN products, along with some very shill looking support posts.. But then I am a cinic, and will probably be berated as such

You'll find that the leading product is promoted by installers. (see my comment in the line above )

If you want to know who will be around in 5 years time to support their warranties look at the companies behind each of the various products, and see how long they have been in business and check their financials - do a credit report on each of them. Also check out their current record on support and warranty support - what does each provide to an installer if one needs replacing? Then make your own decisions.

You have a few to choose from
Solar Immersion
Solic 2000
ImmerSun
Intelligent Immersion
Sola Controlla
Open Energy Monitor
Solar Cache
Solar Divert 3000

And I know I've forgotten a couple of others.

Do your own research first.

 

[jbella]

Thushar, EWP and echase are all promoting THEIR OWN products, along with some very shill looking support posts.. But then I am a cinic, and will probably be berated as such

You'll find that the leading product is promoted by installers. (see my comment in the line above )

If you want to know who will be around in 5 years time to support their warranties look at the companies behind each of the various products, and see how long they have been in business and check their financials - do a credit report on each of them. Also check out their current record on support and warranty support - what does each provide to an installer if one needs replacing? Then make your own decisions.

You have a few to choose from
Solar Immersion
Solic 2000
ImmerSun
Intelligent Immersion
Sola Controlla
Open Energy Monitor
Solar Cache
Solar Divert 3000

And I know I've forgotten a couple of others.

Do your own research first.

Thanks! Good, but could somebody (preferably impartial) please quickly summarise above mentioned proportional controllers.
Particularly info like: burst fire / phase controller; possible flickering; internet connection (via Arduino or something similar); extra benefits if any...
If you could indicate price tag would be great although I can see some prices even on last couple of pages...
I believe there are more people like me seeking this kind of info in one place.

I'm following (but not regularly) this thread for a while but to be honest I've lost a continuity. I guess as these controllers are on the UK market they should meet certain criteria for the home installation. Is that a case for all of them?

I'm about to upgrade my old combi boiler for a new condensing boiler and I'm considering to install also immersion heater as a either main source of hot water (summer) or preheat (winter) unit for the combi boiler. Obviously I would like to use surplus from my solar PV (Juraj'sPV 2.850kW | Live Output) and I'm looking for the right proportional controller for me.

Already for a year or so I'm using Sailwider (Home Energy Monitoring and Control System Solar Version with automatic operation function) controller to control 3 remote sockets for a background heating in north facing rooms to my full satisfaction.
I just hope that I'll be able to continue to use it in conjunction with proportional controller. I'm not an electrician but I do not see any reason why it should not work.
My idea is that proportional controller will feed the immersion heater up to water temperature of 60 degree and then the rest will be spread by this Sailwider controller.

thanks in advance,

Juraj

 

[danesol]

Thanks! Good, but could somebody (preferably impartial) please quickly summarise above mentioned proportional controllers.
Particularly info like: burst fire / phase controller; possible flickering; internet connection (via Arduino or something similar); extra benefits if any...
If you could indicate price tag would be great although I can see some prices even on last couple of pages...
I believe there are more people like me seeking this kind of info in one place.

I'm following (but not regularly) this thread for a while but to be honest I've lost a continuity. I guess as these controllers are on the UK market they should meet certain criteria for the home installation. Is that a case for all of them?

I'm about to upgrade my old combi boiler for a new condensing boiler and I'm considering to install also immersion heater as a either main source of hot water (summer) or preheat (winter) unit for the combi boiler. Obviously I would like to use surplus from my solar PV (Juraj'sPV 2.850kW | Live Output) and I'm looking for the right proportional controller for me.

Already for a year or so I'm using Sailwider (Home Energy Monitoring and Control System Solar Version with automatic operation function) controller to control 3 remote sockets for a background heating in north facing rooms to my full satisfaction.
I just hope that I'll be able to continue to use it in conjunction with proportional controller. I'm not an electrician but I do not see any reason why it should not work.
My idea is that proportional controller will feed the immersion heater up to water temperature of 60 degree and then the rest will be spread by this Sailwider controller.

thanks in advance,

Juraj

Not really sure how the sailwider senses that it has available energy at its disposal, so I assume is via a CT, if so I think you may have an issue using any one of the Immersion Devices - as they may fight for use of the surplus energy and secondly do you have enough energy available for both systems |??

If you do you may find that its very seasonal when both can take advantage of surplus at somepoint during the shiny hours, but fight the rest of the time ?

 

[danesol]

.........snip


Already for a year or so I'm using Sailwider (Home Energy Monitoring and Control System Solar Version with automatic operation function) controller to control 3 remote sockets for a background heating in north facing rooms to my full satisfaction.
I just hope that I'll be able to continue to use it in conjunction with proportional controller. I'm not an electrician but I do not see any reason why it should not work.
My idea is that proportional controller will feed the immersion heater up to water temperature of 60 degree and then the rest will be spread by this Sailwider controller.

thanks in advance,

Juraj

Just thinking out loud now and I dont confess to know how all immersion devices work, but there are ones which have an inbuilt secondary replay such as the Solar Immersion Device which you maybe able to take advantage of to use with the Sailwider by monitoring that secondary replay????

Moves away now for the experts.........................

 

[danesol]

Not really sure how the sailwider senses that it has available energy at its disposal, so I assume is via a CT, if so I think you may have an issue using any one of the Immersion Devices - as they may fight for use of the surplus energy and secondly do you have enough energy available for both systems |??

If you do you may find that its very seasonal when both can take advantage of surplus at somepoint during the shiny hours, but fight the rest of the time ?

Just a quick follow on since I made this initial suggestion, I've had a brief look at your PVo and your Sailwider seems to do a fairly good job of utilising your surplus, HOWEVER its lets you down on really sunny days as if you review 25 March - you simply dont utilise all available surplus...... therefore I think you need to findout how immersion systems would interact with your existing Sailwider before moving forward with one of them - that IMO maybe the weak link for you, unless you can do as I suggested previously.

 

[jbella]

Just a quick follow on since I made this initial suggestion, I've had a brief look at your PVo and your Sailwider seems to do a fairly good job of utilising your surplus, HOWEVER its lets you down on really sunny days as if you review 25 March - you simply dont utilise all available surplus...... therefore I think you need to findout how immersion systems would interact with your existing Sailwider before moving forward with one of them - that IMO maybe the weak link for you, unless you can do as I suggested previously.

Hi,

exactly as you said I simply can't utilise all available surplus because Sailwider controller monitors via CT total PV generation, total consumption and in the same time it monitors what is the load on the individual remote sockets.
It switches first socket (I've got 400 W heater on it) when there is excess of 400 W, then the second based on the load on that sockets, then third and so on.
So I believe if I connect any proportional controller it will take as much as available (up to immersion rating - let say 3 kW) surplus until water is 60 degree. When immersion switches off Saiwider can use the rest of available surplus again providing there is more that 400 W surplus available.
Another option could be as you mentioned to monitor just secondary replay.

You are right living in Scotland and having 2.85 KW system is not too much :-( but in one year I've exported almost 1000 KWh and on other side I'm looking just for small 50-80 l immersion cylinder since we are just two of us.

One thing I am not sure where can I clip the proportional sensor. Is it OK on the live between meter and solarimmersion as their picture shows?
I just remember when I was first time connecting all my energy monitors (3 of them) it took me a while to understand where to clip them. I could not clip it between meter and fuse box because it could not recognise whether I am exporting or importing. So I've end up with my fuse box full of clip sensors for energy monitors and Sailwider and no space left for anything else :-(

Any chance to answer the firsts part of my previous post about summarising available proportional controllers?

 

[danesol]

snip....................

One thing I am not sure where can I clip the proportional sensor. Is it OK on the live between meter and solarimmersion as their picture shows?
I just remember when I was first time connecting all my energy monitors (3 of them) it took me a while to understand where to clip them. I could not clip it between meter and fuse box because it could not recognise whether I am exporting or importing. So I've end up with my fuse box full of clip sensors for energy monitors and Sailwider and no space left for anything else :-(

Any chance to answer the firsts part of my previous post about summarising available proportional controllers?

The Immersion Device CT sensor will always have to be on the tails just after the DNO electric meter and senses current in both directions, or at least I know the Solar Immersion CT does. This way it picks up all current movement and knows precisely the net surplus available.

Unfortunately I do not have enough product knowledge of each device to give you a summary of each but a few suppliers have offered that information in various posts, some havent !

All I can tell you is in a normal situation - they all work and use surplus, supplied at different purchase costs, if you want to know finer details, you need to speak to both suppliers and some of their existing customers.

hth


ps> Note for all - to a certain degree there is a benefit of these devices in conjunction with OLD DNO meters - it will in the majority of cases stop the meter going backwards in naturally the right conditions - lol

 

[jbella]

Unfortunately I do not have enough product knowledge of each device to give you a summary of each but a few suppliers have offered that information in various posts, some havent !

All I can tell you is in a normal situation - they all work and use surplus, supplied at different purchase costs, if you want to know finer details, you need to speak to both suppliers and some of their existing customers.

hth


ps> Note for all - to a certain degree there is a benefit of these devices in conjunction with OLD DNO meters - it will in the majority of cases stop the meter going backwards in naturally the right conditions - lol

Hi,

Is Solarimmersion phase fired controller? Somehow I can not get this info from manufacturer :-(
I can see that you are using this controller. Is it reliable or any issues?
Thanks,

Juraj

 

[echase]

I'm about to upgrade my old combi boiler for a new condensing boiler and I'm considering to install also immersion heater as a either main source of hot water (summer) or preheat (winter) unit for the combi boiler.
Juraj

The unit in my house is generating too much hot water at this time of year, partly because I also had a solar thermal systems installed some years ago. What is the view on feeding combi boilers off the hot water cylinder?

We have 2 gas boilers in our house and although the main boiler goes off for 6 months in a year the combi one that feeds our granny annex has to stay on because it not possible to feed its taps from the cylinder due to a long pipe run. Problems I can see with feeding the combi are:

1. They are mains fed. Is around 0.5bar from the cylinder enough pressure? It will drop as flow rate goes up. The radiator loop will still be at its usual 1 to 2bar.

1. What happens if the feed water goes up to 70C and the combi is only trying to generate 50C? Hopefully the gas will go off but the water still flows through the combi.

1. Due to long pipe runs, around 4 to 8 litres has to flow before the cylinder water reaches the combi. So for short uses, like washing up, the hot water is never going to get to the combi. As the feed pipe can not be insulated due to its inaccessibility it will often cool down again before the next use.

1. Are they any water regs reasons to not do this?

Anyone tried this?

 

[echase]

If you want to know who will be around in 5 years time to support their warranties look at the companies behind each of the various products, and see how long they have been in business.

A lot of the companies in this field are quite new and so there is indeed a risk that your support lifeline will fail if they do not last. The important thing therefore is to get a reliable product that will last you many years even if the company vanishes. E.g. does it have a fuse to protect itself against load failure as otherwise the unit could be toast with no warrantee cover if your immersion fails, as they often short circuit at end of life?

Apart from a couple of units that blew their easily replaceable fuses because of an immersion failure we have never had an in-service failure, but to be fair to Immersun we have not sold as many units as them so would expect less failures than they. Why has Navitron apparently stopped selling Immersuns if they are the leading product?

I have been in this business for 2 years and with another solar product long before that that I still support although it pays me no money. I would continue support out of interest in the technology and not because of any commercial imperative.

Or you could say that with such good paybacks you will have recovered your money in a short number of years. So if it then fails out of warrantee it’s not the end of the world because by then you can probably buy a replacement at half the price.