PVC Conduit in workshop.

[highspark]

I'm running conduit over some work benches in a workshop. Usual hand tools are to be used such as drills and hand saws etc. Would it be within the regs to run the singles in PVC conduit rather than steel galv? I woul then rcd protect circuit.?i suppose there is a risk of medium severity damage as its a workshop area!

 

[johnboy6083]

PVC conduit is actually quite resiliant, but the saddles are crap. I would go for galv, with distance or hospital saddles.

 

[Knobhead]

You obviously haven’t been in a workshop, otherwise you would know plastic conduit will last 5 minutes before it’s destroyed.

Steel conduits every time.

 

[Strima]

suppose there is a risk of medium severity damage as its a workshop area!

There's your answer, Galv. Is the conduit close to bench level or higher up towards ceiling height?

If up high you could run in PVC then the drops in galv to give mechanical protection, would need bonding and look a right bag of spanners.

 

[Strima]

And as for Busby1991, you should really stay awake in class, you'd be surprised the things you can learn.

 

[Adam W]

I don't see why pvc conduit should instantly fall apart just because it's in a workshop. 'Heavy duty' 'High impact' conduit is called that for a reason.

 

[Marvo]

Depends on what type of workshop I imagine. We usually use steel conduit or sometimes we use Unistrut with a clip-on lid as trunking if it's a harsh environment. Even then I've seen unistrut destroyed before.

 

[highspark]

Heavy gauge is what I have in mind. I personally think it will do the job for the environment.

 

[sedgy34]

highspark,
i would use pvc conduit but go higher than the work bench so it isnt likely to get damaged rather than getting the stocks & dyes out the van :ack2:

 

[johnboy6083]

Fair enough in an industrial workshop, then it has to be galv, but for a small hobby type shop then I think PVC would be ok. I think you would have to see it to be sure.

 

[highspark]

I wouldnt call it a hobby workshop. It's got several employees working at benches with hand tools. Screwdrivers. Drills etc. the heavy gauge can take some battering. Doing it in galv is going to open a can of worms and up cost of aroun 200%

 

[sedgy34]

Doing it in galv will give you arms like popeye :43:

 

[Knobhead]

What’s bothering you, the cost, or you can’t do metal conduit?

 

[highspark]

What’s bothering you, the cost, or you can’t do metal conduit?

cost of course. We should always be looking to do a cost effective job as well as getting the correct protection. Here I think the heavy gauge may well do the job. It is robust and seems to bounce stuff of it. I agree with the fact the accessories aren't as robust. But if I rcd protect the circuit I can't see where I am going outside the regs.

Tony do you ever give out helpful information? Or are you on here to talk rubbish because 99% of your responses to me are just that.

 

[Plonker 3]

Have you asked the customer what they want?

Maybe you could explain the difference in cost would be off set against the amount of time and cost of repairing PVC should it get smashed.

Just because you would RCD protect the circuits doesn't mean it is fine, if you are designing the installation then the customer could blame you for damage if it were to be done in PVC

 

[wildgoose]

Agree with Dillb - Explain to customer the pro's and con's of metal-vs-plastic and of course the cost differences.

If in this workshop, they are likely to accidentally damage the plastic conduit, then the decision is a no brainer and the customer will hopefully recognize this.

If he doesn't, then make him aware of the consequences of the additional cost for replacement of workshop damaged parts. Also I suggest a follow-up email to him along the lines of :Confirming our conversation earlier regarding your choice of the conduit material...............

You will then be able to rest easy that you wont be expected to repair or replace plastic conduits at your cost!!

 

[UNG]

I'm running conduit over some work benches in a workshop. Usual hand tools are to be used such as drills and hand saws etc. Would it be within the regs to run the singles in PVC conduit rather than steel galv? I woul then rcd protect circuit.?i suppose there is a risk of medium severity damage as its a workshop area!

Heavy gauge is what I have in mind. I personally think it will do the job for the environment.

You have obviously risk assessed the proposed installation. The only control measure you can use to reduce the risk is use galv conduit

highspark,
i would use pvc conduit but go higher than the work bench so it isnt likely to get damaged rather than getting the stocks & dyes out the van :ack2:

Doing it in galv will give you arms like popeye :43:

What is the problem with a bit of hard work or does it frighten you

I wouldnt call it a hobby workshop. It's got several employees working at benches with hand tools. Screwdrivers. Drills etc. the heavy gauge can take some battering. Doing it in galv is going to open a can of worms and up cost of aroun 200%

I don't see what can of worms doing it in galv conduit would open. With regard to cost if the PVC conduit you are proposing to use gets damaged the doing the job twice will not be cost effective. The problem with a lot of workshops is the temperature and the expansion and contraction of PVC

cost of course. We should always be looking to do a cost effective job as well as getting the correct protection. Here I think the heavy gauge may well do the job. It is robust and seems to bounce stuff of it. I agree with the fact the accessories aren't as robust. But if I rcd protect the circuit I can't see where I am going outside the regs.

Cost and cost effective are in my opinion two different things there is doing it cheap and doing a job in the most cost effective way to give the best result for the cost
You obviously have doubts about using PVC conduit!!. While the RCD offers protection should damage occur if the conduit or accessories are broken or damaged will they get it repaired if it still "works" and they are protected by the RCD over the years I have seen many badly specced jobs that have been unfit for purpose due to poor material choices

Tony do you ever give out helpful information? Or are you on here to talk rubbish because 99% of your responses to me are just that.

I think he asked a reasonable question, I also think you had already made up your mind how you intended to do this job so the original post was looking for support if "the electricians forum says it is ok then it must be". Having said that I think you have already answer Tony's question in your previous posts


To be honest I think I would look to use a 50 x 50 metal trunking at dado level which would allow for future alterations to the installation therefore making it very cost effective in the long term

May be the best option is put together prices for all the installation options and discuss it with the customer and let him make the choice of what he would prefer

 

[highspark]

You have obviously risk assessed the proposed installation. The only control measure you can use to reduce the risk is use galv conduitWhat is the problem with a bit of hard work or does it frighten youI don't see what can of worms doing it in galv conduit would open. With regard to cost if the PVC conduit you are proposing to use gets damaged the doing the job twice will not be cost effective. The problem with a lot of workshops is the temperature and the expansion and contraction of PVCCost and cost effective are in my opinion two different things there is doing it cheap and doing a job in the most cost effective way to give the best result for the costYou obviously have doubts about using PVC conduit!!. While the RCD offers protection should damage occur if the conduit or accessories are broken or damaged will they get it repaired if it still "works" and they are protected by the RCD over the years I have seen many badly specced jobs that have been unfit for purpose due to poor material choicesI think he asked a reasonable question, I also think you had already made up your mind how you intended to do this job so the original post was looking for support if "the electricians forum says it is ok then it must be". Having said that I think you have already answer Tony's question in your previous postsTo be honest I think I would look to use a 50 x 50 metal trunking at dado level which would allow for future alterations to the installation therefore making it very cost effective in the long termMay be the best option is put together prices for all the installation options and discuss it with the customer and let him make the choice of what he would prefer

I have made an assessment and as the designer I have decided to use PVC heavy gauge. Try hitting this with a hammer this stuff is very durable.

 

[Engineer54]

Tony do you ever give out helpful information? Or are you on here to talk rubbish because 99% of your responses to me are just that.

I think you'll find that there will be a lot of members that would totally disagree with your above assessment!!!

 

[UNG]

I have made an assessment and as the designer I have decided to use PVC heavy gauge. Try hitting this with a hammer this stuff is very durable.

Really!!!!

Only as long as it is in a warm environment

PVC conduit when it's cold shatters into bits if hit with a hammer or you try to put any bends in it, if it comes into contact with any kind of solvent it melts yes it is a very durable product. I have seen many PVC conduit installations where the conduit has stood the test of time (less than a year) the same can't be said of the conduit fittings

As designers and installers we all have our methods and reasons yours from your previous posts appears to revolve around lowest cost option, in situations like these I like to discuss the options with the customer so they are aware of the options, the costs and not least the pros and cons of each option

I believe that this thread had no reason to be started as the question that was asked had already been answered by yourself how's that for negativity

 

[highspark]

I think you'll find that there will be a lot of members that would totally disagree with your above assessment!!!

I asked him if he ever has anything good to add. Never said he didn't. What I did say is tht 99% of his responses to me are either rubbish or him looking down upon me. Just something I have noticed. He has never helped me out, without having a poke as sutch. Just my experience of him.Anyhow I've done what's right. Drops are going in steel galv. Having a battle in my own head regarding it and cutting corners is not applicable. Should have quoted for galv in first place.

 

[Darkwood]

Just to note to this thread, Heavy duty PVC can have a higher impact resistant than steel conduit as some of the impact energy is reflected and if it does shatter it absorbs the impact diverting it off the cables, where a steel conduit can be buckled crushing the cables with a like for like impact, the issue with plastic is that it tends to be left in this state if all is still working but we all know it should be replaced straight away, and ive used high impact pvc and believe me it takes some hitting to even crack it. So regarding O/P high impact pvc conduit is ok unless the tools been used are like angle grinders where an accident would see it cut through it like butter, in this case steel conduit should be used. If the site is industrial with heavy work and high chance of accidental damage you just need to work out what is likely to be the cause if your balancing between high impact pvc and steel.
A company with a record of damage to electrical infrastructure should have their electrical inspection shortened to a max of 3yrs or even less if damaged electrics are constantly been replaced and call out on.

 

[highspark]

Just to note to this thread, Heavy duty PVC can have a higher impact resistant than steel conduit as some of the impact energy is reflected and if it does shatter it absorbs the impact diverting it off the cables, where a steel conduit can be buckled crushing the cables with a like for like impact, the issue with plastic is that it tends to be left in this state if all is still working but we all know it should be replaced straight away, and ive used high impact pvc and believe me it takes some hitting to even crack it. So regarding O/P high impact pvc conduit is ok unless the tools been used are like angle grinders where an accident would see it cut through it like butter, in this case steel conduit should be used. If the site is industrial with heavy work and high chance of accidental damage you just need to work out what is likely to be the cause if your balancing between high impact pvc and steel. A company with a record of damage to electrical infrastructure should have their electrical inspection shortened to a max of 3yrs or even less if damaged electrics are constantly been replaced and call out on.

Thank you Darkwood. The things you mention were the main reason why I decided to quote for heavy gauge PVC. It is very very robust and flexible. It does absorb blows very very well and it takes some force to crack it. However I have now decided to do the drops in Galv just for peace of mind. This site is brilliant but any chance some members have to call on peoples competence or methods are thinking is jumped upon by the odd few. I knew from the beginning that Galv would offer much better protection but in my mind I was having battles as to whether I was adding cost to an installation that could withstand using the cheaper PVC option. In this case it could have been me getting the job or not.

 

[Darkwood]

Reading your thread id have asked what specifically the tool were, as ive said if your using high speed cutting tools like grinders then no grade of PVC will withstand it and steels the way to go, if they are just bashing and drilling and fabricating metal (heavy handed work) it would be possible to get away with high impact PVC, its just a learning curve and i used it once because of the sets i needed to achieve was easier in plastic but otherwise steel for me everytime.
If you quoted for steel explain why, use the reg's where possible and explain the longevity of galv' steel and that it will pay for itself with regards to the need to be repaired or replaced and throw an example from a previous (false if necessary) job of another customer you've just replaced plastic for steel, if you just drop a quote in they will look at the end figure and possibly loose job but if you have a one on one and breakdown your quote then if joe bodgit blogs undercuts you the customer can compare exactly what hes getting and hopefully see the errors of the cheaper quote.

 

[imago]

Out of interest, what do they do in the workshop?