Qualifications (and other requirements) required to change a consumer unit.

[shanky887614]

Most of the Chartered Engineers that i have known over the years in the buildings services side of our industry take every opportunity to pick up tools and help out. I can't speak for let's say, the younger generation of C Engineers, it maybe a different story as far as they are concerned, but let's not forget even the younger C Engineers are not ''graduate'' Engineers, far from it in fact...

my stepdads an engineer, bombardier are sponcering him to get his charted.

he can do the work but he doesnt know the wiring regs so he needs watching to makesure the work conforms.

just silly little things, outside lighting etc, by telling him to use an outdoor fcu before the lighting.

otherwise i know what would have happend, 1.5/1mm would have gone straight onto garage supply (adaptable box in the gargen for the supply, i guessed twin inside house to the swa down into duct)

it wouldnt have been good practise having it fed from 32amp supply.

(i didnt do it because like a lot of engineers present company excluded are either **** slow or annoying)

 

[Engineer54]

Are you saying that your stepdad, an electrical engineer doesn't know to fuse down when changing wiring from one cable size to a smaller cable size?? Sorry, i can't believe that!! lol!!

There's nothing wrong with being slow and methodical, when it's your own home.

 

[dylanoil]

OK So Here's how itis....

Pretty much everyoneis right on the money on this thread butlet me add some more detail for my >specific< case which might make a bit more sense. If you want theshort answer - I give up and will probably need to go find a Part P registeredspark.

If you want thelonger answer - read on! (BTW it contains a health warning as to a certainamount of bragging)

Whilst I was inschool, on holidays and weekend, I worked for a company that installed soundand lighting in nightclubs. The first thing that goes into a DJ console is...guess what...? a consumer unit. Populated with ring finals, radials ( yes I knowthe difference between a spur and radial!) and some higher current circuits tosupply the myriad of weird and wonderful kit to put on a nightclub show. TheseCU's were often fed from larger 3 phase disti boards. Some of the clubs hadlasers which at the time were a 3phase 20A supply. I did all this work alongsideand learned from sparks who were doing the general club fitout, lighting,standard ringmains, emergency lighting. They always left the DJ console to meand another young wet behind the ears chap I worked with because it "was a bit too complicated" I did this forabout 10 years part time including holidays in university. So I can't rememberthe amount of CU's I did during that time but it was more than a handful. I also did all of the low current audio soI'm a dab hand with a soldering iron (one of the reasons the general sparkssteered clear of the DJ console!) BTW The opening night of a club was always great as it was usually a free bar for all the trades that had worked on it!!

After college I did 7years in British Steel (sadly now owned by TATA) where I mentioned before I did myC.Eng but worked there alongside wiremen doing 1000's of terminals at a time -man, I couldn't do that I would go crazy. It was project work so a lot of thetime I was commissioning automation systems and fault finding on insustrial scale equipment. I even did a little bit onsome 3.3kV switchgear (the control end of things - rather than the sharp end - I gladly left that to someone else thank you very much).

Since then I spentanother 15 years in IT Engineering including datacentre for a large multinational - which is probablyirrelevant for this thread other than to demonstrate that I'm an oldgrumpy git rather than still wet behind the ears!)

I like to think Istay safe and know my own limitations, and ASK if in doubt, which is why I amon here.
Whilst I have beenon this forum, I have also been reading up on this for the last 2 days -knowing that I should check out any changes for the 17th edition. Actually themain driver for this is to get RCDs on all circuits as I have small kids. So anew 17th Edition CU should do nicely.

So….. I emailed theLABC which resulted in an automatic mail saying we'll get back to you in 20 days….great!!

I then called themand got a similar response along the lines of "yes we're all universityengineers here and might have the quals but wouldn’t undertake any workourselves". That came from a civil engineer!

So I asked about menotifying LABC and doing the work myself and they said "we don't have anyone that's capable of inspecting an installationand you need someone Part P qualified to do that!! Oh and by the wayy that's extra on top of the £120notification fee (which I don’t really understand what I'm paying for!) Theyalso said "don’t you have anyone Part P registered you know who can do itwith you?" Answer is I don’t.

I would at thispoint say stuff it and just get on with the job but then I want theInstallation certificate. I'm not planning to move house any day soon but justin case - I don't want the aggro. Also If LABC get wind of non-notification,then they could slap a £5000 fine if they get out of bed the wrong way too.

I looked at doingC&G and registering with a Part P provider but then that is just getting stupid money.


I completely"get" sparkies not wanting to test and certify someone else's work sothere's little option other than me going to the competent persons website,selecting someone at random and getting them to do the install.

I'm sure there areplenty of "told you so's" in here but it does like I just have to paymoney to get past red tape which is damn annoying and frustrating. I just hadto ask the questions.

So thank youeveryone for all the comments - great debate!

Does anyone want to quotefor coming to inspect and test an "apprentice's " work!??

Ian

 

[dylanoil]

OK So Here's how itis....

Pretty much everyoneis right on the money on this thread butlet me add some more detail for my >specific< case which might make a bit more sense. If you want theshort answer - I give up and will probably need to go find a Part P registeredspark.

If you want thelonger answer - read on! (BTW it contains a health warning as to a certainamount of bragging)

Whilst I was inschool, on holidays and weekend, I worked for a company that installed soundand lighting in nightclubs. The first thing that goes into a DJ console is...guess what...? a consumer unit. Populated with ring finals, radials ( yes I knowthe difference between a spur and radial!) and some higher current circuits tosupply the myriad of weird and wonderful kit to put on a nightclub show. TheseCU's were often fed from larger 3 phase disti boards. Some of the clubs hadlasers which at the time were a 3phase 20A supply. I did all this work alongsideand learned from sparks who were doing the general club fitout, lighting,standard ringmains, emergency lighting. They always left the DJ console to meand another young wet behind the ears chap I worked with because it "was a bit too complicated" I did this forabout 10 years part time including holidays in university. So I can't rememberthe amount of CU's I did during that time but it was more than a handful. I also did all of the low current audio soI'm a dab hand with a soldering iron (one of the reasons the general sparkssteered clear of the DJ console!) BTW The opening night of a club was always great as it was usually a free bar for all the trades that had worked on it!!

After college I did 7years in British Steel (sadly now owned by TATA) where I mentioned before I did myC.Eng but worked there alongside wiremen doing 1000's of terminals at a time -man, I couldn't do that I would go crazy. It was project work so a lot of thetime I was commissioning automation systems and fault finding on insustrial scale equipment. I even did a little bit onsome 3.3kV switchgear (the control end of things - rather than the sharp end - I gladly left that to someone else thank you very much).

Since then I spentanother 15 years in IT Engineering including datacentre for a large multinational - which is probablyirrelevant for this thread other than to demonstrate that I'm an oldgrumpy git rather than still wet behind the ears!)

I like to think Istay safe and know my own limitations, and ASK if in doubt, which is why I amon here.
Whilst I have beenon this forum, I have also been reading up on this for the last 2 days -knowing that I should check out any changes for the 17th edition. Actually themain driver for this is to get RCDs on all circuits as I have small kids. So anew 17th Edition CU should do nicely.

So….. I emailed theLABC which resulted in an automatic mail saying we'll get back to you in 20 days….great!!

I then called themand got a similar response along the lines of "yes we're all universityengineers here and might have the quals but wouldn’t undertake any workourselves". That came from a civil engineer!

So I asked about menotifying LABC and doing the work myself and they said "we don't have anyone that's capable of inspecting an installationand you need someone Part P qualified to do that!! Oh and by the wayy that's extra on top of the £120notification fee (which I don’t really understand what I'm paying for!) Theyalso said "don’t you have anyone Part P registered you know who can do itwith you?" Answer is I don’t.

I would at thispoint say stuff it and just get on with the job but then I want theInstallation certificate. I'm not planning to move house any day soon but justin case - I don't want the aggro. Also If LABC get wind of non-notification,then they could slap a £5000 fine if they get out of bed the wrong way too.

I looked at doingC&G and registering with a Part P provider but then that is just getting stupid money.


I completely"get" sparkies not wanting to test and certify someone else's work sothere's little option other than me going to the competent persons website,selecting someone at random and getting them to do the install.

I'm sure there areplenty of "told you so's" in here but it does like I just have to paymoney to get past red tape which is damn annoying and frustrating. I just hadto ask the questions.

So thank youeveryone for all the comments - great debate!

Does anyone want to quotefor coming to inspect and test an "apprentice's " work!??

Ian

 

[telectrix]

the chances of LABC fining you 5 grand, or even considering prosecution are slimmer than those of geordie winning the london marathon.

 

[Richo77]

I'm with eng. on this. The OP has forgot more than most will know. He's installed CU before he has the hands on experience. Go for it mate.

 

[shanky887614]

Are you saying that your stepdad, an electrical engineer doesn't know to fuse down when changing wiring from one cable size to a smaller cable size?? Sorry, i can't believe that!! lol!!

There's nothing wrong with being slow and methodical, when it's your own home.

electronics engineer rather than electrical and yes he didnt think to fuse down.

really easy to be honest, 20mm knockouts on existing adaptable, same in the others so all it needed was a bit of plastic conduit with silicon to help seal it

 

[shanky887614]

OK So Here's how itis....

Pretty much everyoneis right on the money on this thread butlet me add some more detail for my >specific< case which might make a bit more sense. If you want theshort answer - I give up and will probably need to go find a Part P registeredspark.

If you want thelonger answer - read on! (BTW it contains a health warning as to a certainamount of bragging)

Whilst I was inschool, on holidays and weekend, I worked for a company that installed soundand lighting in nightclubs. The first thing that goes into a DJ console is...guess what...? a consumer unit. Populated with ring finals, radials ( yes I knowthe difference between a spur and radial!) and some higher current circuits tosupply the myriad of weird and wonderful kit to put on a nightclub show. TheseCU's were often fed from larger 3 phase disti boards. Some of the clubs hadlasers which at the time were a 3phase 20A supply. I did all this work alongsideand learned from sparks who were doing the general club fitout, lighting,standard ringmains, emergency lighting. They always left the DJ console to meand another young wet behind the ears chap I worked with because it "was a bit too complicated" I did this forabout 10 years part time including holidays in university. So I can't rememberthe amount of CU's I did during that time but it was more than a handful. I also did all of the low current audio soI'm a dab hand with a soldering iron (one of the reasons the general sparkssteered clear of the DJ console!) BTW The opening night of a club was always great as it was usually a free bar for all the trades that had worked on it!!

After college I did 7years in British Steel (sadly now owned by TATA) where I mentioned before I did myC.Eng but worked there alongside wiremen doing 1000's of terminals at a time -man, I couldn't do that I would go crazy. It was project work so a lot of thetime I was commissioning automation systems and fault finding on insustrial scale equipment. I even did a little bit onsome 3.3kV switchgear (the control end of things - rather than the sharp end - I gladly left that to someone else thank you very much).

Since then I spentanother 15 years in IT Engineering including datacentre for a large multinational - which is probablyirrelevant for this thread other than to demonstrate that I'm an oldgrumpy git rather than still wet behind the ears!)

I like to think Istay safe and know my own limitations, and ASK if in doubt, which is why I amon here.
Whilst I have beenon this forum, I have also been reading up on this for the last 2 days -knowing that I should check out any changes for the 17th edition. Actually themain driver for this is to get RCDs on all circuits as I have small kids. So anew 17th Edition CU should do nicely.

So….. I emailed theLABC which resulted in an automatic mail saying we'll get back to you in 20 days….great!!

I then called themand got a similar response along the lines of "yes we're all universityengineers here and might have the quals but wouldn’t undertake any workourselves". That came from a civil engineer!

So I asked about menotifying LABC and doing the work myself and they said "we don't have anyone that's capable of inspecting an installationand you need someone Part P qualified to do that!! Oh and by the wayy that's extra on top of the £120notification fee (which I don’t really understand what I'm paying for!) Theyalso said "don’t you have anyone Part P registered you know who can do itwith you?" Answer is I don’t.

I would at thispoint say stuff it and just get on with the job but then I want theInstallation certificate. I'm not planning to move house any day soon but justin case - I don't want the aggro. Also If LABC get wind of non-notification,then they could slap a £5000 fine if they get out of bed the wrong way too.

I looked at doingC&G and registering with a Part P provider but then that is just getting stupid money.


I completely"get" sparkies not wanting to test and certify someone else's work sothere's little option other than me going to the competent persons website,selecting someone at random and getting them to do the install.

I'm sure there areplenty of "told you so's" in here but it does like I just have to paymoney to get past red tape which is damn annoying and frustrating. I just hadto ask the questions.

So thank youeveryone for all the comments - great debate!

Does anyone want to quotefor coming to inspect and test an "apprentice's " work!??

Ian

ok now if you yourself did a
electrical itstallation cerificate

then when it comes time to sell an electrician can do an electrical installation condition report,


bassically by you do the install cert signing both the designer and install sections, then someone else at a later date can do a periodic inspection/eicr if the estate agents require it. (if they want part p its a mikey take course to following part p of the buildinh regs, ask your kitchen fitter to sign it lol, a lot of them have it)

 

[Badged01]

Oooh, you little tinker of a rule breaker .....

 

[Adam W]

Being a chartered engineer doesn't automatically qualify someone to carry out any electrical installation work.

I agree - some of the worst 'sparks' I've worked with were previously electrical engineers, who for whatever reason have taken 'a step down' to 'rough it' working alongside the likes of me.
There was one on my last job - he'd keep going on about how used to earn more money than I could ever dream of, how he could design these whizzy fibre optic systems or a door entry system for the whole building, and I had to keep pointing out that he wasn't there to do that, he was there to second fix sockets and switches, which he happened to be really bad at. I appreciate he may have had extensive knowledge of amplifiers and PLCs, but we didn't have any of those in the building. We did however have 2 way lighting, which for some reason he couldn't get his head around, which in my estimation makes him a poor electrician. The side of his van said he did carpentry as well, but I wouldn't trust him with that either - you don't develop the required hand skills from reading books and solving equations.

OK in this particular case the OP has practical experience, which IMO is the key factor; the degree is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[alasdairp]

I think if you have to ask - the best answer is to get a local qualified sparks in to do the job. If you really believe that you are competent (and you sound as id you should be... but then...) it is OK to do it but then, officially, you should get someone who can sign off on Part Pee to check it and sign it off. Officially you will need that if you sell the house - but I have never known it to be asked for or checked! If you do it yourself you should get and follow the On Site IET inspection and testing testing guide - indeed all the IET On Site related guides are good. BTW - IF you replace the consumer unit you will be taking responsibility for checking that all the wiring in the house is up to current test standards (you can have mixed colours and mixed wiring types (but you should have a label/sticker stating this), but all must be adequate and in good condition to pass the formal tests).

 

[Engineer54]

electronics engineer rather than electrical and yes he didnt think to fuse down.

Come on, theres of a bit of difference between an Electrical and an Electronics Engineer!!

 

[7029 dave]

Just because he is an post graduate, so what?, he can or he can't.!! Only he knows if he is competent.