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Worcester

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Thought I'd trigger a discussion here, as our assessment is due in 4 weeks time!

What experience has anyone have about needing / being required to attend refresher courses etc?

p.s we're with Napit for PV, Thermal, Biomass and Heat Pumps...
 
Heres' the MCS Stuff

MCS 001 Para 17 requires
"All staff employed in installation, set to work and/or commissioning activities must have received adequate training in each of the areas/operations in which they are involved.
The MCS Contractor must have a training record for each employee which details training received, and any qualifications or certificates held by the individual. The record should be signed or verified by the employee.
The MCS Contractor must have a record detailing the MCS related activities for which each individual is approved on the basis of their competence. The competencies required for MCS Contractors are detailed in the relevant installation standards."

So that points to MIS 3002 which says
"5.3 Please see Appendix A below which contains the required roles which will need to be fulfilled by the MCS Contractor for this MIS 3002 standard.
5.4 The competence criteria to be demonstrated by the MCS Contractor can be found via the MCS website (www.microgenerationcertification.org). In addition to this, the MCS Contractor guidance on how to achieve compliance and the descriptions of the required roles which will need to be fulfilled can also be found on the MCS website (www.microgenerationcertification.org)."

So that points back to the MCS Document

I have this document : MCS Scheme Criteria Matrix Issue 2.0 Last Updated : 21st November 2014 Con;t see it on the MCS Website......
which says
"This document should be read in conjunction with Section 5 and Appendix A of the relevant MCS Installer Standard, and the Installer Certification Scheme Competency Criteria Guidance.
Where criteria have been identified to underpin roles, as set out in the above documents, the matrices below show various pathways to demonstrating that competence.
The matrices provide links to the relevant pages of the Ofqual website which show the knowledge outcomes that must be demonstrated to the Certification Body.
These Ofqual links have been used because the same competency criteria underpin both the Experienced Workers Route and qualifications, and so the publicly available information on that site is relevant to both routes.
For clarity, there is no requirement(1) to gain qualifications."

(1) says
"Except where statutorily required"

This document MCS_Installer_Guidance_v1.0 (MCS025-20131216) then says:
"3. EXPERIENCED WORKERS ROUTE
The identified competency criteria provide a matrix of the knowledge required for a number of roles.
Some of this knowledge could be demonstrated through training and qualifications. However the roles also allow for an “Experienced Workers Route” for individuals wishing to be assessed who do not hold or wish to gain the formal qualifications relevant to the technology concerned
The Experienced Workers Route is designed to take into account demonstrable experience and other evidence such as internal and external training completed (such as manufacturer’s training).
This route will cover the same criteria as the approved qualification route and will be delivered in a similar way in terms of assessment outcomes.
All companies should consider which approach is best suited for their individual needs and circumstances."

The above - "Some" definitely doesn't mean all of it can be demonstrated that way :)

Then 2 pages of tables then:
"Any evidence submitted to the MCS Certification Body shall be sufficiently robust so as to allow an audit trail to be followed when the evidence is evaluated by the MCS Certification Body.
Companies wishing to explore the Experienced Workers Route should contact their MCS Certification Body, who will be able to provide guidance on the application process."

SO, I'm going to call NAPIT - our body tommorrow - they have mentioned the qualifications before but never REQUIRED it, - we got all our technologies certified before this was a required route - they said that so long as the staff didn't change then we were OK on the on the experience route, new staff added to the list would have to have the qualifications.


THOUGHTS ......
 
We just keep a training log. Every time we go on a course, whether certified or not, we log it. Most of these are freebies run by distributors in conjunction with manufacturers. Ditto if we go along to Ecobuild or similar exhibitions.

Even if you don't receive a formal certificate and end up falling asleep during a dull presentation, you can still prove you were there - invitation letter, random photo or similar documentation.

We've never been pulled up on this.
 
Had my inspection this morning. Had a management meetings non com, hadn't done anyo_O

I was asked about qualification updates and replied I had redone my acs(Gas) and that was that.

Methinks MCS are desperate to retain membership though. Ours is due 1st week October
 
Just looking at options for MCS myself. Stroma have said they will accept EWR (experienced Worker Route).

I had one of those shonky NICEIC Training PV qualifications that only lasts 5 years. Got it in mid 2010, instructor had only ever seen one PV system :)
 
We were failed on lack of training certificates. Last few years we have shown tham a few certificates and they were happy. This year they stated we needed to go on refreshers.
I am technology lead for PV based on EWR (uni degree, reading regs, manufacturer training, 15 years exp etc.) I have never done a C&G course for PV (although was invited to teach it at one point). We have prepared training record showing qualifications, experience and manufacturers training training. We are with ELECSA - will let you lnow how we get on (submitting today).
 
@ T4 keep us updated would be good to know, thx
 
Can anyone understand this?

Welcome to the Experienced Workers Route - Experienced Workers Route - http://www.experiencedworkersroute.com/

I guess they are thinking of large / national ccontractors (Amey etc)

The overhead for a small company to register as an 'Experienced Worker Provider" looks exceedingly onerous and complicated.

I'm just trying this out as well: Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Competency Criteria - http://www.cctmicrogenerationcertification.org/
Anyone else used it?
 
Got this back from the NICEIC today:

"Hope you are well

I have been asked to contact you regarding your PV Qualification

The experience worker route hasn't started yet but you can register an interest. I have been advised this route will cost in the region of ÂŁ500.

There is another way you can resolve this, and that is to undertake a refresher course NICEIC and BPEC have this option running the NICEIC course is available at Warwick House and Chesterfield.

Hope this helps"

Looks like it's going to cost us time and money either way.

To say I am furious right now would be a major understatement. The MCS continue to be a major obstacle for our business.
 
If only the inspectors actually showed some interest in my practical competence rather than wasting my time with a sodding QMS document then the industry would be in a better state and I wouldn't have to waste my time travelling around the country listening to people tell me things I already know.
 

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