Quality work by a electrical trainee.....

[-Matt]

I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed.

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for

Anyway have fun with these :

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet!

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..

Wago boxes are over-rated...

This surely has to be up there with the worst?

 

[Anthony S]

No-ones an Electrician unless they can do Domestic, Commercial, Industrial. No such thing as an Domestic Installer, its come about to generate money for schemes, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In response to SparkyChick’s post:
Not sure about fixing accessories to the inside of cupboards.
Don’t like the two lengths of trunking feeding the accessories under the cupboards.
Don’t like cables fixed in place under floor boards.
Do like the metal plates protecting cables through joists.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No-ones an Electrician unless they can do Domestic, Commercial, Industrial. No such thing as an Domestic Installer, its come about to generate money for schemes, nothing more nothing less.

An electrician is someone who conducts electrical work for remuneration.

 

[Deuce]

@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...

Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?

This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?

I was saying you won't get those skills from a 4 week course. Of course, some people just have a strong practical ability and enough common sense to get things mostly right without specific training.

Likewise, other people can work on site an entire career and still be fairly useless!

 

[SparkyChick]

In response to SparkyChick’s post:
Not sure about fixing accessories to the inside of cupboards.
Don’t like the two lengths of trunking feeding the accessories under the cupboards.
Don’t like cables fixed in place under floor boards.
Do like the metal plates protecting cables through joists.

Thanks @spinlondon

Just some questions if I may

The accessories in cupboards... what do you see as the issue with that?

Two lengths of trunking... I agree, not ashamed to say I made a mistake, should have used bigger trunking to begin with. Just couldn't get all the cables in one length. Genuine mistake.

Cable fixed in place under the floor boards... I'm guessing is the cabling around the Surewire lighting junction box? Generally agree, the only cables that were fixed were those going to the boxes themselves. They have cable clamps anyway and movement was limited. The rest were just pulled in.

 

[SparkyChick]

I was saying you won't get those skills from a 4 week course.

And I absolutely would not argue with any that holds that view, because it's fundamentally correct. There is not enough practical time on the short courses.

There's enough to get the basics of wiring down, but once you start to throw into the equation construction methods etc., forget it.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks @spinlondon

Just some questions if I may

The accessories in cupboards... what do you see as the issue with that?

Two lengths of trunking... I agree, not ashamed to say I made a mistake, should have used bigger trunking to begin with. Just couldn't get all the cables in one length. Genuine mistake.

Cable fixed in place under the floor boards... I'm guessing is the cabling around the Surewire lighting junction box? Generally agree, the only cables that were fixed were those going to the boxes themselves. They have cable clamps anyway and movement was limited. The rest were just pulled in.

Back in the days before MF JBs, JBs were fixed to platforms constructed under the floor with all cables clipped prior to making any connections, not only was this good practice, it made connecting a lot easier, and with large lighting JBs a work of professionalism, not like they teach today make the connections and chuck it (the JB ) under the floor. I some times wonder as long as the JB position is noted on the EIC why we can't still use them, I suppose it is the lack of training given out in these "be a Spark in 5 weeks courses" no skills taught just how to get the exam passed.

 

[gazdkw82]

@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...

Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?

This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?

That's a good point. In this instance as long as the individual has at least a few years in the trade then I'd consider that acceptable experience.

The overall problem for me is the people who run these courses generaly help you through. Some of the ones in my class we're clueless without being promoted in the right direction (even at the simplest task) not all are like this but some are and that's the danger.

I think after you pass you should still need 2 years experience before you are classed as competent. that doesn't apply if you have prior experience.

Electrical work is very diverse. Personally I only believe you can be classed competent once you have had exposure to numerous situations that you can only get working out within the trade.

 

[123]

Back in the days before MF JBs, JBs were fixed to platforms constructed under the floor with all cables clipped prior to making any connections, not only was this good practice, it made connecting a lot easier, and with large lighting JBs a work of professionalism, not like they teach today make the connections and chuck it (the JB ) under the floor. I some times wonder as long as the JB position is noted on the EIC why we can't still use them, I suppose it is the lack of training given out in these "be a Spark in 5 weeks courses" no skills taught just how to get the exam passed.

I don't see why the round 30A JB exists any more. Old practice had often seen the cpc twisted together and left outside the JB, this practice has carried on and those that use them still do this today.

With Wago's and MF products so readily available that do a better job, and a quicker install, why would anyone think installing a round 30A JB is a good idea?

 

[Fitzy]

That's a good point. In this instance as long as the individual has at least a few years in the trade then I'd consider that acceptable experience.

The overall problem for me is the people who run these courses generaly help you through. Some of the ones in my class we're clueless without being promoted in the right direction (even at the simplest task) not all are like this but some are and that's the danger.

I think after you pass you should still need 2 years experience before you are classed as competent. that doesn't apply if you have prior experience.

Electrical work is very diverse. Personally I only believe you can be classed competent once you have had exposure to numerous situations that you can only get working out within the trade.

You could use this analogy for most things in life, like driving lessons, they only teach you how to pass the driving test, not to drive in general, that’s learnt after you pass. So should we all have been put on a special licence for the first few years?

Take Firefighters for instance. Now a days most counties Fire Brigades only put new recruits through a 6-8 week basic training course, then the rest of the training is done ‘on the job’, yet when I joined in 1989, I had to complete 26 weeks basic training which was much more intense and activity based and was a minimum of 3-4 weeks per module of the job involved. Now, that has to be crammed on to 6-8 weeks which is roughly 5-10 days per module, BUT, they’re still competent firefighters who when push comes to shove can tackle an incident singled handly.

 

[gazdkw82]

Yes, however a firefighter works within a team. I bet the recently passed firefighter will still be monitored as if he/she was a junior.

Some electricians coming out of a 5 week course and no really experience are going it alone and taking on all sorts of jobs

 

[Toneyz]

and a quicker install, why would anyone think installing a round 30A JB is a good idea?

We did.---Classroom we had already run the 2.5/1.5 PVC/LSF around the perimeter of the room asked to add two extra sockets cut 2.5 near where one socket would be put the other leg to first socket new cable between that and another new socket then back to 30A JB above-suspended ceiling screwed to a wooden panel. We were unable to pull the new cable back to the previous socket in the room so JB that we had in the van helped us out.

 

[Deuce]

And I absolutely would not argue with any that holds that view, because it's fundamentally correct. There is not enough practical time on the short courses.

There's enough to get the basics of wiring down, but once you start to throw into the equation construction methods etc., forget it.

This is a key point I think. Many dodgy shortcuts are taken by tradespeople because they want to make the physical installation easier. They may well know it's wrong to run cable the way they do, but they do it anyway as they don't have the practical ability to adapt the property to run it the correct way.

This is compounded when a customer doesn't want to have to much messy work done, and gives off the impression they want it done easily/cheaply. I'm sure often the customer is as much an instigator of these shortcuts as the spark that nods along and does the work. It's on the sparks shoulders in the end though, they are the professional.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed.

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for

Anyway have fun with these :

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
View attachment 45259

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
View attachment 45256

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
View attachment 45254

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
View attachment 45255

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
View attachment 45253

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet!
View attachment 45258

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
View attachment 45252



View attachment 45261

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
View attachment 45262

Wago boxes are over-rated...
View attachment 45257

This surely has to be up there with the worst?

Sorry chap, but you've started a controversial thread which is fair enough but then given no further input. The above accusation about the Domestic installer courses are worthless without backup facts which you have failed to give.

The above work is not the fault of a short course in the slightest, nor is it the fault of any course or apprenticeship. It is just some person who doesn't give a xxxx about themselves or the safety of others.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Response to @SparkyChick:
Some would say that accessories should be fixed only to the fabric of the building.
From your picture, it looks like the accessories are attached to the more solid side of the cupboard, not the flimsy back panel.
As such and taking into consideration that it’s a fitted kitchen (which makes the cupboards virtually part of the fabric of the building), I don’t have a problem with them.
However, others (including assessors) may have.

Surprised you couldn’t fit all the conductors in just one length of trunking?

Don’t like cables fixed under floorboards and above ceilings, as it’s a pain when it comes round to rewiring them.