Question re 5 amp socket for flatscreen TV use

[ian.settle1]

I've used them before, but as someone else said generally only for table lamps switched from elsewhere.

Have seen 2 Amp sockets used in hotels for bedside/table lamps which are switched from next to bed and at door into room.

 

[Risteard]

Have seen 2 Amp sockets used in hotels for bedside/table lamps which are switched from next to bed and at door into room.

It's a sensible enough application for them, but not sure why you would connect a television into one!

 

[mogga]

Check at the switch and see if there are more than one "Switched live" coming out the switch if so you could split them and switch the "TV" one seperatly or just dont plug table lamps in

 

[UNG]

Makes me wonder, were these sockets designed specifically for lighting circuits.

No they were not, they were in use as normal sockets along with the 15A round pin socket until the 13A socket and ring circuit appeared

Nowadays they are used as non standard socket outlets along with all the other non standard socket outlets that are available

 

[martysparky]

Yes thats what I mean a layman who might have stayed in a few Hotels might well think its for lights.

Otherwise might think, whats this old style / foreign socket I'll replace that with a normal one and then later goes for a Trip, trip in the dark.

Die Y'er did not realize its on a lighting circuit.

I come across a boiler on a light circuit the other week.

I just don't think its a good thing a light circuit should be for lights and a boiler circuit for a boiler and a kitchen circuit for a kitchen and an outbuild circuit for an outbuild.

As, we are supposed to consider the future of the installation should we not make it idiot proof.

 

[Adam W]

I see what you're saying but how far do you go with that?
Personally I prefer not to take a neutral to a switch if I can help it, for fear of the DIYer coming along and using it for a socket (my theory is if it won't work they're less likely to try it) but it seems a shame to say a customer can't have all their lights including table lamps switched from a common location. Perhaps a happy medium would be if round pin sockets came pre-etched with "Lights" or "Lighting Only" - if done professionally there's no reason it has to look messy, then if they choose to go against what their installation is telling them (eg putting a 3A plug on the vacuum cleaner) then that becomes their lookout.

 

[UNG]

As, we are supposed to consider the future of the installation should we not make it idiot proof.

Are you suggesting that accessories are fixed with security screws so they can't be tampered with?

I see what you're saying but how far do you go with that?
Personally I prefer not to take a neutral to a switch if I can help it, for fear of the DIYer coming along and using it for a socket (my theory is if it won't work they're less likely to try it) but it seems a shame to say a customer can't have all their lights including table lamps switched from a common location. Perhaps a happy medium would be if round pin sockets came pre-etched with "Lights" or "Lighting Only" - if done professionally there's no reason it has to look messy, then if they choose to go against what their installation is telling them (eg putting a 3A plug on the vacuum cleaner) then that becomes their lookout.

But if you wire the lighting as three plate then they have an easy place to find a live and neutral for a socket so where do you stop trying to second guess the idiot

With regard to engraved sockets I use a dymo label maker to mark them up just as neat as engraved sockets


The problem is educating B & Q etc that the fiittings they sell should not have plug top transformers that are based on the 13A plug

 

[martysparky]

How far we go with it is a good question.

Licensed Electricians key for accessories Brilliant idea same as license scheme to buy electrical goods
though.

maybe we should all fit security screws in special locations and associated circuits from now on.

They would have to call us rather than Die Y then

 

[Adam W]

But if you wire the lighting as three plate then they have an easy place to find a live and neutral for a socket so where do you stop trying to second guess the idiot

With regard to engraved sockets I use a dymo label maker to mark them up just as neat as engraved sockets


The problem is educating B & Q etc that the fiittings they sell should not have plug top transformers that are based on the 13A plug

If the nearest neutral to the switch is on the ceiling I can't see the DIYer going to the effort of running a cable up to the rose/JB in the ceiling void just to make use of a switchbox that is already chopped into the wall to convert to a socket - to my mind if you're going to go to that much effort to bodge something you may as well do it properly.

I was considering mentioning Dymo (other brands available) label writers because they're a lot more flexible than having to buy the sockets pre-etched; they're fantastic for commercial jobs where you need to mark at the switch or socket which breaker they're on, but again if a householder decides they don't want a label on their socket it's easy enough to peel it off. If the label were etched into the faceplate and the only direct replacements had the same marking because they were marketed as 'lighting sockets' it might help push the message across.

This idea of security screws is interesting but I can't see it working - anyone can replace like for like even in a special location. If it came to it the old accessory could be removed with a hammer, or the customer could just moan about it like they do with those BC3 pendants which were installed to comply with part L for a while but are all but obsolete now.

 

[UNG]

If the nearest neutral to the switch is on the ceiling I can't see the DIYer going to the effort of running a cable up to the rose/JB in the ceiling void just to make use of a switchbox that is already chopped into the wall to convert to a socket - to my mind if you're going to go to that much effort to bodge something you may as well do it properly.

Doesn't stop them putting an upstairs socket on the downstairs lights, could be quite a neat job!!!!!

I was considering mentioning Dymo (other brands available) label writers because they're a lot more flexible than having to buy the sockets pre-etched; they're fantastic for commercial jobs where you need to mark at the switch or socket which breaker they're on, but again if a householder decides they don't want a label on their socket it's easy enough to peel it off. If the label were etched into the faceplate and the only direct replacements had the same marking because they were marketed as 'lighting sockets' it might help push the message across.

Why increase the cost and narrow the use of a "non standard" socket which can be used for different applications. The other option would be to use klik sockets which are more specifically designed for lighting applications

This idea of security screws is interesting but I can't see it working - anyone can replace like for like even in a special location. If it came to it the old accessory could be removed with a hammer, or the customer could just moan about it like they do with those BC3 pendants which were installed to comply with part L for a while but are all but obsolete now.

As with all solutions there are ways round them, that is why proper and accurate certification is needed to protect yourself against the bodge it householders additions after you have left. No matter what your wiring preferences are, someone out there will find a new way to "fix it"

 

[mogga]

Im in agreement ung its like Vandalproof fittings they still get vandalised Schemes still get abused

Canabis is ilegal and hey ppl still take it What we need is better policing of NIC/Napit?Elsca?Select ffs theres that many schemes you could almost make up your own and have it

 

[Adam W]

Doesn't stop them putting an upstairs socket on the downstairs lights, could be quite a neat job!!!!!

It would do because there wouldn't be a neutral in the switch - just a live supply, switched live which goes to the light and 3 wires to the other switch as common and strappers.

Why increase the cost and narrow the use of a "non standard" socket which can be used for different applications. The other option would be to use klik sockets which are more specifically designed for lighting applications

Are there any applications other than lighting? For specific items of equipment (eg freezers) there are plugs and sockets available with the pins 'the wrong way' around, or unfused 15A plugs and sockets for high powered lights as used in stage lighting, but I don't like the idea of putting (as in this example) a television on a lighting circuit controlled by a light switch and relying on the MCB for the lighting circuit.
Kiliks may be fine in a ceiling rose but considerably bigger and more round than a 2A plug.

 

[UNG]

It would do because there wouldn't be a neutral in the switch - just a live supply, switched live which goes to the light and 3 wires to the other switch as common and strappers.

I don't think you read my post properly! It would be very easy to take a cable from a downstairs ceiling rose wired three plate to a skirting mounted socket upstairs

Are there any applications other than lighting? For specific items of equipment (eg freezers) there are plugs and sockets available with the pins 'the wrong way' around, or unfused 15A plugs and sockets for high powered lights as used in stage lighting, but I don't like the idea of putting (as in this example) a television on a lighting circuit controlled by a light switch and relying on the MCB for the lighting circuit.
Kiliks may be fine in a ceiling rose but considerably bigger and more round than a 2A plug.

I agree it is not the best having a TV on a lighting circuit. Why should round pin plugs be solely reserved for lighting when the klik sockets are available

With regard to your comments on the Klik sockets most are smaller than the standard socket plate it might be worth looking here

http://download.hager.com/hagergrou.../Klik_Product_Information/NewKlikBrochure.pdf

and appraise yourself of the range available

 

[pineappletree]

Ive got one of those in my flat. Its for lamps only. DO NOT plug your tv into it

 

[Adam W]

It would be very easy to take a cable from a downstairs ceiling rose wired three plate to a skirting mounted socket upstairs

Surely that would involve either lifting floorboards or knowing which way the joists run and fishing a cable through though? My point was that if a novice DIYer couldn't just swap a light switch for a socket with no additional wiring or drilling they probably wouldn't bother; those that would are probably slightly more clued up on electrics.

Why should round pin plugs be solely reserved for lighting when the klik sockets are available

I'm not saying ALL round pin plugs should only be used for lighting, but i think 2A plugs should be; my uncle kept his old 15A sockets in his house until he moved out in the late 90s because he preferred them, presumably because that's what he was always used to.

I have to admit I've neither seen klik sockets (or any other brand) with a square faceplate used or even available until I followed that link - I've only ever seen/used the round conduit rose version or the marshalling boxes, which have always been at high level, above the ceiling in commercial premises.
I think it would be a lot simpler for householders to know 'the little plugs are just for lights', without trying to complicate things by introducing a type of connector which is specific to one manufacturer.